Dificulties to land A 320

  • The aircraft is driven to the approach, with this information on the panel
    Activated: FD, ILS, LOC, A / THR, AP2, ALT = 1500 feet and SPD = 180 Kts. At that time, AP2 is automatically deactivated, starts to accelerate and rises rapidly.

    In the PFD, I see LVR CBL, THR LK and TOGA LK blinking frequently. How to act on these functions ?.
    What functions do I have to activate (and deactivate others), to continue until the A 320 airplane is correctly landed?

    Regards : Delfin

  • The A.FLOOR is triggered too early which then transitions to TOGA LK on the PFD which has already been reported about a week ago. I've already fixed it internally for quite some time now, even before the first user raised any complaints, but we have to merge our work yet and it will be fixed as soon as possible.

    Make sure to set flaps early, leave speed high until on final descent, LOC + GS. You should be able to approach without the a.floor kicking in, even though it triggers too early.... aoa (angle of attack) needs to be below 9.5deg, normally you could go up to 15°. So keep the aoa low by staying fast.

  • However LVR CLB means that the thrustlevers are in the wrong position with A/THR engaged when they should be in the CL detent.

    If they are at idle or at a too low thrust position A/THR can't reach the required thrust level and the alpha floor protection will kick in, even at the correct trigger AoA.

    If he was flying with manual thrust and then the A.FLOOR kicked in LVR CLB flashes because ATHR is now active again and his levers are not yet back in CLB.

    But even if the speed was normal due to a bug the A.FLOOR kicks in too early, just be patient for the fix :)

  • IMPORTANT: what is written in this thread, refers to "Fully Automatic Landing"

    In situation of approach, my speed is = 180 or 190 Kts. and which I suppose is high enough; also with flaps extended to the maximum- In these conditions, and despite the existing deficiencies in this plane, can I, or not, land correctly this aircraft?


    Please inform me of the meaning of "A. FLOOR" and "TOGA LK."

    I can not modify these functions in mid-flight, because I guess what I should do given the situation of the PFD flashing?

    Thak you very much, Jan.

    Delfin

  • HI Delfin,

    A.FLOOR is the abbreviation of alpha floor thrust I think, alpha being the angle of attack, Alpha floor is one of the protections of the fly by wire Airbus A320. If the angle of attack reaches a critical level the aircraft automatically commands maximum available TakeOff Go Around thrust (TOGA) to recover from potentially low speed. This function can be canceled by pulling the thrust levers aft to idle or by using the A/THR disconnect.

    TOGA LK means Take Off Go Around Lock, a state where the angle of attack is no longer critical but the pilot has not yet adjusted the thrust levers. To disable TOGA LK in the upcoming version just move the thrust levers. In your current version: same as A.FLOOR, move levers to idle or use autothrust (called "auto throttle disengage" in the settings and in Boeing aircraft (buhhh!)).

    180kts with flaps full? Yeah, that is about 3kts faster than max operating speed -> overspeed...

  • Hello Jan
    Thank you for that long and very clear answer

    I gather from your answer, that this plane is not completely finished to fly in "Fully Automtic Landing". Is this assumption correct?

    I understand that if an airplane is not completely finished, especially its instruments, it is not advisable to do flight practices with this airplane.

    However, doing landing practices (and in manual), this plane lands very, very well, and with a speed of 145 Kts. But in automatic, it is impossible to land it, even with 160 Kts.

    Regards: Delfin

  • That which you affirm is correct. I have also observed that this en-route plane is only at more than 340 Kts. In reality, I suppose it is impossible.

    From this it is deduced (as I have affirmed), that it is not definitively finished, especially its instrumentation, although that, just repeated Jan.

  • I must say that it was a certain illusion to make routes and to land in automatic. I do it and it works correctly the B. 747, but this A 320, after the several attempts, (and especially, expressed by Jan), I will cease in my attempts, at least, until it works correctly.


    Thank you for the concepts you have made clear to me.


    Regards Delfin

  • Again, A320 autoland works perfect! Unfortunately I can't replicate your problems.

    If you can land the A320 manually at 145kts there's no reason why the AP shouldn't be able to do it.

    Well, I reported the same problem a week ago. Happens to me every time. (Normal speed and flaps)

  • Delfin, are you on the latest beta version of the Aerofly?

    Don't know if this has been reported already but when I tried to find out how the above problem occurs (still scratching my head at a.floor with full flaps and 180kts) I noticed that I can extend the landing gear way above 250kts. You can't extend the landing gear above 260kts on the real A320.

    That is not implemented yet. And there is a bit more to do for this one...

    I'll write it on my list. Spoiler protection at low speed should also be added :) It's extending them right away when the speed is high enough again... should stay in until you cycle the lever

    I've actually already done a lot of the smaller items you sent me.

  • Delfin, are you on the latest beta version of the Aerofly?

    Hello Jan
    I apologize for not having responded before now. I have little time and I can not respond with the agility I would like.

    Honestly Jan, I do not know. I've never looked for it until now. Is this ?: Aerofly FS 2, version 2.0.1.EA4.76 (20170825).

    Is this the latest beta version?

    "1050 E", states that the A 320 works perfectly. In my case (and I have fought a lot), it is not so; does really strange maneuvers. If we both have the same version, I do not understand anything. The B. 747 works fine, but the A. 320 in automatic landing, I am not able to land it. Consequently, and as I expressed yesterday, I will have the necessary patience until you make the necessary modifications for its correct operation, and consequently, enjoy this beautiful airplane.

    Regards: Delfin

  • Hello Jan
    I apologize for not having responded before now. I have little time and I can not respond with the agility I would like.

    Honestly Jan, I do not know. I've never looked for it until now. Is this ?: Aerofly FS 2, version 2.0.1.EA4.76 (20170825).

    Is this the latest beta version?

    "1050 E", states that the A 320 works perfectly. In my case (and I have fought a lot), it is not so; does really strange maneuvers. If we both have the same version, I do not understand anything. The B. 747 works fine, but the A. 320 in automatic landing, I am not able to land it. Consequently, and as I expressed yesterday, I will have the necessary patience until you make the necessary modifications for its correct operation, and consequently, enjoy this beautiful airplane.

    Regards: Delfin

    That is the same version that I have. The only time it is giving me issues is when I fly slow with just flaps 1.

  • The issue seems to be with TOGA LK and speed much less than 200 kts.


    I can have a perfect flight using NAV, be nicely lined up for final approach, engage the ILS which seems to be working well and when speed drops below 200, with flaps at 0 or down, TOGA LK kicks in, disengages the AP, banks to the right and ruins the landing.

    Another issue is, the same can happen simply by lowering the flaps too early (say from 1 to 2 at 210 kts on final) - AP will disengage and the plane banks to the right.

  • I had especially in autoland, those same problems and others already described at the beginning of this thread.

    Surely the users who know very well the procedures of autoland in this airplane, can land it in automatic by means of certain tricks, but, I repeat, in my opinion, this airplane is not definitively finished to make a autoland correctly.

    In my opinion, we should not fly, or land in automatic, in an airplane whose instruments and maneuverability, is not finally finished.

    Possibly, there are also certain deficiencies in other maneuvers, especially in automatic, but surely, I do not know.

    Regards: Delfin

  • Who said that the aircraft was completely finished?
    The autoland is very realistic and that works pretty well according to 105OE who flew this aircraft in the real world, and the real world flight crew operating manuals which I used during programming... So autoland is pretty much in its final state it works good, but may undergo some fine tuning over time. So I don't see any actualy facts to prove the autoland is "definitively not correct".

    You are probably referring to the fly by wire of the A320 which is the cause of the autopilot disconnects at the moment. That has already been fixed internally as I said, I hope we can get an update out this week but I don't make the plans for that, sorry.

    And what about the instruments? "Not finished", what are you referring to?

    "Deficiencies in other maneuvers", again, what do you mean by that? The Fly by wire will protect the aircraft from abnormal maneuvers, so it is realistic that some maneuvers will not be possible with this aircraft.

  • I take back my earlier comments. I've tried again and an automatic landing was perfect.

    Set speed to 180 knots with flaps at 2, established on the LOC and glide slope and had a perfect landing!

    I think the reason I was getting TOGA LK before was due to the plane trying to pitch up for altitude with speed being too low - ensuring that flaps are set correctly and you aren't pitching above approx. 9/9.5 degrees (can be adjusted with a -100 V/S if you haven't established on the LOC yet), TOGA will not activate and you will continue with a smooth flight.

  • Who said that the aircraft was completely finished?
    The autoland is very realistic and that works pretty well according to 105OE who flew this aircraft in the real world, and the real world flight crew operating manuals which I used during programming... So autoland is pretty much in its final state it works good, but may undergo some fine tuning over time. So I don't see any actualy facts to prove the autoland is "definitively not correct".

    You are probably referring to the fly by wire of the A320 which is the cause of the autopilot disconnects at the moment. That has already been fixed internally as I said, I hope we can get an update out this week but I don't make the plans for that, sorry.

    And what about the instruments? "Not finished", what are you referring to?

    "Deficiencies in other maneuvers", again, what do you mean by that? The Fly by wire will protect the aircraft from abnormal maneuvers, so it is realistic that some maneuvers will not be possible with this aircraft.

    Hello Jan

    I wrote: "in my opinion, this airplane is not definitively finished to make autoland correctly".

    Well, I wrote that based on the difficulties I had, especially to land on automatic. Your Jan, have a knowledge infinitely superior to mine, on that plane; therefore, I apologize for my statement. If you categorically state that the plane is finished, it is obvious that you are right, and I was wrong, in asserting that the plane was not definitely finished.

    Of course, I opined, depending on my difficulties landing. Surely it is due to an incorrect configuration on my part, the functions of the airplane to fly, and, above all, to land in automatic.

    Once again, I apologize for this little rigorous statement.


    Regards: Delfin

  • Contagem de

    I take back my earlier comments. I've tried again and an automatic landing was perfect.

    Set speed to 180 knots with flaps at 2, established on the LOC and glide slope and had a perfect landing!

    I think the reason I was getting TOGA LK before was due to the plane trying to pitch up for altitude with speed being too low - ensuring that flaps are set correctly and you aren't pitching above approx. 9/9.5 degrees (can be adjusted with a -100 V/S if you haven't established on the LOC yet), TOGA will not activate and you will continue with a smooth flight.

    For what you describe, you have landed correctly in automatic. Could you please make an accurate and meticulous description of the configuration made in the A.320 to make that correct landing on automatic?

    Of course, I suppose you have done, not one, but several landings in automatic and all correct. Is it so?

    Regards: Delfin

  • The quickest way to do a fully automatic landing:

    - create a flight plan with an ILS approach at the end.

    - ||: place the aircraft in the approach for that runway

    - start the flight and press "a" :||

    - make sure LOC and G/S are armed in blue, if not press APPR button

    If you do the placing on final approach twice in a row (||: this stuff :||) you are garantueed that the radio navigation receivers are tuned from the first instant on, then LOC and G/S should immediately capture as soon as the aircraft is initialized.... And you just need to press the autopilot master key to make it perform the fully automatic landing.


    When you are enroute and want to fly the approach:

    - managed heading (NAV), managed descent (DES), managed speed (speed window dashed), throttle input in CLB detent

    - After passing the "D" (deceleration) point on the ND and the aircraft slows to green dot speed:

    - press appr button, engage second autopilot

    - extend flaps 1 and to prevent the A.FLOOR / TOGA LK bug at this time as soon as possible (below amber "=") extend flaps 2, 3 and full

    - wait for LOC* and G/S*

    - on G/S* extend landing gear

    - do landing checklist: arm spoilers, set autobrakes LOW, set all exterior lights to ON,...

    - at 10ft: move throttle to idle

    - after touch down use reverse

    - when desired disconnect autopilot

    - tap the brakes to disconnect autobrake