custom views in cockpit possible?

  • Hello flightfriends,

    Is it possible to create custom views of for example the radio stack or some other panels. I tried to change the view (number 2) in C172 so that the viewpoint is slightly moved toward the instruments. However, the moving distance of the viewpoint is not that big. Because I have the oculus rift I'd like to have a better view at some panels and instruments. Would it be possible to zoom in VR. This does not seem to work right now. If I could have some custom views "under" lets say keys 1 to 5 on my keyboard that wouid make a big difference. Also I would like to remove the outside view of the airplane because I dont use them. Instead I'd like some different inside views attached to those buttons!


    thanks in advance,

    Jozef

  • jozef

    it is easy to modify your cams by yourself, simply adjust the XYZ-coordinates in the .tmd file, every aircraft type has.

    You may also delete cams if you find they make no sense.

    Crawl the forum for earlier threads regarding cam points and field of view FOV.

    not sure whether there has been uploaded a tutorial, if not, i can do one for you.

    Give it a try, if you fail, come back, we'll do it together.

    Backup your .tmd file before working on it.

  • Thanks!! Is that tmd file situated in documents or in steam/aerofly...... folder

    I'll give it a go!

    Jozef

    There is one for each aircraft, under Steam\steamapps\common\Aerofly FS 2 Flight Simulator\aircraft

    one in each aircraft folder...

    Make sure to backup the originals and also backup your work regularly, Steam likes to override the tmd files in this game folder.

  • Ok, I found the files. However, changing parameters to adjust the view for lets say the copilot seat is something different.I have no idea how and what to change and what the effect will be. Lets say I want no copilot view in the c172 but a radio stack closeup. How would I achieve that?


    Thanks!

    Jozef

  • R0 is the camera position, x = forward, y = left, z = up, all in m, relative to the center of the model, which is roughly the center of gravity.

    For a radio stack camera copy an existing camera like the "CameraPilot" object and past it underneath, then rename your new cam, adjust the x,y,z and just reload, try again, reload, until you got it.

    I'd guess something like this would be the result:

    Code
            <[string8][object][camera_head]
                <[string8][Name][CameraRadioStack]>
                <[string8][Body][Fuselage]>
                <[tmvector3d][R0][ 0.55 -0.05 0.35 ]>
                <[tmvector3d][Direction][ 1.0 0.0 0.0 ]>
                <[bool][InCockpit][true]>
                <[string8][Tags][cockpit]>
                <[string8][Description][Radio stack]>
            >
  • Great!!

    How can I manipulate the file/text so that only one camera position is under keyboard button "2" and not a few. I mean pressing the key a few times gives multiple views. Would like to pin just one view to lets say key 1 to key 5, so five different views each having their own key.


    Thanks again🙋

  • That is not possible. "2" is the key to step through all cockpit cameras, all cameras with the flag "InCockpit = true".

    You could delete all other cameras but then you have only your radio stack left.

    If you do only the pilot camera and your radio stack you could switch back and forth with the "next camera" command, for that delete all cameras with "InCockpit" true from the tmd and only leave the pilot cam and your radio stack.

  • i have been asking for mousewheel zoom inside the cockpit for a years, but they come with weird excuses.

    some wheels and knobs interaction on the panels and autopilot is pure nonsense either.

    who would scroll the mouse wheel up to make the alt wheel go down? give me a break. this is not trimming!

    tired of argueing.

  • Don't get me wrong, I would totally love mouse wheel zoom in the virtual cockpit. And I think it should be doable. Even without running into problems. I miss the mouse wheel zoom function as well, that would be a nice addition and as I said I don't see any issues that couldn't be avoided when done correctly.

    Where it gets tricky: mouse down, then drag a lever or switch. This would be quite nice for propeller speed, mixture, throttle, flaps, speedbrake, anything with a proper lever really. I could even get used to switching lights like that. But knobs? Yeah I prefer the mouse wheel to change my altitude from 10000 to 40000 ft :) We can discuss that it should speed up for you, I don't want to step each single 100ft.

    some wheels and knobs interaction on the panels and autopilot is pure nonsense either.

    who would scroll the mouse wheel up to make the alt wheel go down? give me a break. this is not trimming!

    Ehm, you quickly run out of options for an A320. How do you like to see the altitude knob of the A320 being implemented as clickspot?

    Currently:

    Left click pushes the knob

    Right click pulls the knob

    Mouse Wheel: change the altitude.

    I'm not a fan of the right click being removed for most switches to be honest. But at least it's consistent now! Mouse wheel is now the preferred option to set any switch into the right position. I think that is also in preparation for VR hand controllers or possibly for touch screen interactions, who knows. It's not a bad thing to make it consistent first to work on such things easier.

  • just thinking out loud (but read carefully, again and again, then print it for future reference):

    i hope i havn't forgotten anything


    keyboard:

    arrow keys should move cam position left, right, forward, backwards (not implemented yet).

    page up/down move down or up your eye position (is implemented).

    Tab ATC Menu

    ° toggle free (free view with mouse, when pressing view freezes)


    pc mouse:

    base agreement: scrolling allows fluid change of sequential values (softly tuneable),

    while a click is a very hard and decisive dual value set (on or off, in or out knob, that's it).

    general rule 1: Never assign a mousewheel for something that in the cockpit is not a wheel* either or has 2 values only like ON/OFF.

    if you hear a "click" ("tiggg/taggg") it is done with a mouse-click.

    if you hear a "chrrchrrchrrrr" it is done by a mouse-wheel.

    (currently light switches interact with mouse scroll, which to my understanding is a complete nogo)

                                              *exception: Levers (see below) or Safety Cover Plates (see below).


    general rule 2:                 Left Click always means ON. (universal standard, no matter what direction that switch looks at, no exceptions)

    relieving (cut off) autopilot = mouse right click (2-way decision)

    relieving altitude button to level off = right click (2-way decision)

    or in described scenario Jan:

    pull means go off = right click,

    push means turn that thing on = left click.

                                                if it is a 2-way decision.

    pushing or pulling mixture is not a 2-way decision, it can vary in its density.

    So adding mixture simply requires scrollwheel up. That way you push/roll the stab away from yourself into the panel.


    A) Overview of scrollable wheels or knobs in the cockpit, which should be controlled with the respective scroll wheel on the computermouse:

    trim1 (middle console up-down/forward-backward), rotating knobs autopilot, atc freq. changer ,

    dynamic panel or dome lighting, nav and display modes, mixture, prop angle, manifold, etc.

    1trimwheel agreement:

    direction of mousewheel rotation is identical to trimwheel rotation,

    other than the trimwheel, many knobs rotate horizontally not vertically. See Conflict Description below.


    B) Overview of clickable switches or buttons in the cockpit:

    Lighting, alarm, engine controls, messaging, Magnitos, ALT set or off, etc.

    C) Levers

    Levers are not so decisive like switches or the ALT set button, as they have a range of values, or lets say a rather smooth tranistion.

    So if you assign speed brake, flaps or fuel cut off with the mouse scrollwheel instead of a click,

    that is perfect. In the sim this is assigned correctly as i recall.

    It gets critical when deciding which direction you turn the know for pulling up respetively laying down the speed flaps.

    The critical aspect is whether you feel with the flaps or with the lever. Probably the lever.

    Pulling the lever is done with a mousewheel down rotation - equal to the trimwheel rule, and that raises the speed flaps.

    putting back the lever in its default position requires a mousewheel up rotation as a consequence.


    D) Anything that does not fit to A, B or C:

    The funniest challenge is for example a hook lever in an F/A-18. That thing needs a hard rotation (unlock) and a pull.

    Going with above definitions that would consequently be done with a short right mouse click and a mousewheel down to extend it,

    and a simple right click (and optionally mousewheel up) to get it back into its hub. The pullback is automatic so save the mousewheel to set it back in.

    Another fine challenge is a master arm switch which is covered by a safety plate. Correct: Open/close the plate by mousewheel up/down,

    where as opening is wheel up. The switch is done by click left for ON, click right for OFF.

    Why scrollwheel for the plate? Cause you associate it with a transition, not with a decision. A transition is not so decisive like the click-clack of the metal switch.

    The plastic cover's mechanics is supported by a spring to get a solid movement when opening or closing it. It is exactly this movement that differentiates from

    an ON/OFF hard position and therefore the click-rule would fail. scroll is correct.


    A remaining dispute hangs over the autopilot knobs that might rotate the wrong way in the sim in some cases

    (most users have a conflict with this as you watch them doing it, let me describe the conflict carefully):

    Situation:

    autopilot values (the numbers), dynamic cockpit lighting or the display's brightness in most aircraft types are controlled

    with clockwise or counterclockwise rotating knobs. However, rotating these knobs with a vertically rotating mouse scroll wheel at home

    leads to the question, is left up and right down? or is up related to the numbers instead of the knob?


    general rule 3: Rotating counterclockwise lowers the value**, rotating clockwise increases the value.

    ** describes the exception at V/S DESC


    so let's check some examples to find out whether this fits or where misleads appear:

    - turning up the dome light would require mousewheel down, as the knob turns to the right.

    - increasing ALT requires mousewheel up, if you feel the rising value. mousewheel down, if you feel the clockwise turn. (unsolved issue)

    - turn the HDG line in the display clockwise and the value of direction in the numbers case going upwards,

    would require mousewheel up if the rising degree of heading is in mind, but down if the knob turn to the right priotizes. (unsolved issue)

    - increasing vertical speed climb+ (rotate clockwise) requires mousewheel up, while

    - **increasing value of vertical speed on descent requires a mousewheel down

    (that is against general rule 3

    but perfectly solves the overall question for an intuitive quick action set that really works when controlling

    a wide body airliner at fast pace approach manoevers and an ATC controller who chases you around headings

    and flight levels.)


    Now the final

    general rule 4: Rotating a knob counterclockwise (left) requires mousewheel upwards,

    Rotating clockwise (increasing the value, right) requires mousewheel downwards, as a reflection of the physical experience we know from

    music volume wheels on handheld analogue sound devices before the iphone age - which we rotated upwards for louder and many

    other hardware applications.

    (in the sim it is the other way i believe)


    Everybody i observed (6 people with no exception i swear), scrolled down the mousewheel for rotating the autopilot knobs leftwards.

    but in the sim is the other way round. If i had the choice i would do it very much the way people do it in their automatism, and

    i would do it for myself, since i feel left is down and right is up.

    if things dont feel right, they most probably should change or made available as personal settings option.

    Edited 3 times, last by Almdudler (October 16, 2017 at 10:54 PM).

  • Hi Almdudler, first thank you for taking the time to think about this and the writing it all down.

    I noticed a couple of things that we just cannot change but let's go through your rules one by one.

    Keyboard:

    I have assigned the arrow keys exactly like you suggest and it works great. Don't know where the difference would be? Maybe enable developer option in main.mcf?

    Rule Nr .1:

    How would you go about the light switches in the A320 overhead. Some are two state, some are three state. Move them all by left + right click? I could live with that.

    Rul2 Nr. 2:

    That would imply that the landing lights switches move backwards on a push command in the A320 and forward in the 737 and 747. That is a no go for VR users if we expand VR hand controls. Right click is internally called "PULL" and left click is "PUSH". So technically the A320 switches have to move forward with left click and backwards to "ON" with a right click pull action.


    I'm not sure if you are familiar with the A320 autopilot. Pushing the knob (internal left click) means activate managed climb/descent. Pulling the knob (internal right click) means activate open climb/descent. There is no off position. So left would be on and right would be on.

    Pushing the mixture may be a bad example, I'd resist using the mouse buttons for this, like you also said.

    What about discrete levers in the Q400 (condition levers with 1020, 900, 850, feather and off positions) - click and drag should be the best solution, right?

    Rule Nr 3:

    For knobs which axes point towards you we model the knob rotation as follows: Hold your mouse in your right hand and move your hand outwards to straighten your elbow. Now the mouse wheel does the correct rotation that we desire: Finger moving up means step to the right. So if you look straight at the knob from the front: rotate up = rotate right. I don't know if there is any possibility for an option here. Mouse up for rotation to the left or so... Not as easy to implement.

    For knobs that rotate along the left/right axis: same as mousewheel on table: mouse up = nose down

    That is how any other flight sim does it and people that are used to them should have no problem with Aerofly here.


    The thing that happens based on that physical rotation of the knob has to be 100% realistic. If turning the knob to the right increases the value than we implemented that. Even if that may seem counter intuitive for vertical speed in the A320 for example, it is how it works in the real world and I'm sorry but you have to get used to that. We won't change the interaction of a rotation direction of a knob and the value behind it - it has to be like in the real world. We might as well flip the gear lever if we started doing that :)

    Rule Nr 4:

    We strictly follow the exact opposite. Moving the finger up means rotating the knob either forward (if axis is left to right) or rotate to the right (if axis points toward screen). In the A320, B737, B747, C90, LJ45, Q400 this means: finger moving upwards = higher heading value, higher altitude value, higher speed value even, knob rotation to the right. For vertical speed: if it's a vertical wheel than vertical speed is flipped, nose down = scroll up.

    Light knobs behave just like that. Scroll up = more light, knob rotates clockwise.

    In general: scroll up = higher value like you want. But the knob rotates right for this like in the real world.

    Suggestions

    Personal taste for knob rotation - I could ask if we can get an optional mouse wheel flip if the axis points toward you. For left handed people or people that like to move the hand toward the inside, that flips the rotation axis...

    I could also publish the controls.tmd files that I have for multiple aircraft. Some people may be keen on experimenting with hidden features :)

    Levers: I'm hoping we will get levers that we can drag with the mouse. That will make a lot of problems disappear! But it also means some changes to the view model, cause currently it just pans the view. We'd have to check on mouse down if you are above a lever. And if we do that we might as well do the same for if you start scrolling. And when you haven't been hovering over a switch than it should be no problem to continue scrolling until you move the mouse by more than 3px.

  • Quote

    You mean z and shift+z ?

    Sorry, this is for VR, don't think the zoom works? Anyway, I was hoping for a present distance so if you needed to take a quick close look at instruments you could just assign a button on the yoke. If you ever have tried Flyinside, you can see the zoom function there.