Locked in Syndrome

1st Official Post

    I'm reluctant to post this after such good news about Colorado, but whenever I fly I get this feeling. Actually JvanE first used the term "locked in" to describe how he feels when he flies FS2 in VR, which is the only way I fly. I like to jump in and take a flight from A to B. I like to use GA like the Cessna or Baron but I don't like to use the navigation systemand have green markers guide me all the way. My preference is to use good old fashioned pilotage and VORs. Then I hit the problem of how I note down and access the info while flying. Yes its immersive in VR but you have no hands or reference materials. The Steam app for overlaying a browser window proved to be too flaky and awkward to use.

    Am I (and JvanE) the only one who flies this way and experiences this problem?

    • Official Post

    Phil,

    While actually writing something with your hands in VR might not be possible we are discussing different ways to implement access control while in VR, and having FULL motion control (VR Hands) is something that I am personally very passionate about. The ability to actually see virtual hands in the flightdeck that mimic your hand gestures, and the ability to turn dials, push toggles, and even control the aircraft using only your hands is something that we are aiming at. Another concept would be to have a tablet sitting on the co-pilot seat (like what was inside the Cessna) that you can grab in VR and turn on to see custom pages/PDF's/etc. that you place inside a folder. This concept would be good for users that want to fly by following those tutorials while in VR.

    Please keep in mind that this is all just concept currently but VR Hands in some fashion will be a feature of Aerofly FS2 in some fashion.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    Thanks Jeff. Preloaded txt files/PDFs placed on that tablet would be a great start. Even if you can't yet fully move the tablet around with the controller(hands) I'd be very very happy with a mouse click toggle option to have the tablet either:

    a) on the seat

    b) in front of your face / mounted to the instrument panel so you could if needed lean in to see more closely.

    Thanks again for the encouraging response on this matter.

    • Official Post

    My thought would be to 'grab' the tablet from the seat and hold it on your hand using the Oculus Touch controller and use your finger to swipe to turn pages. Again, just a concept thinking out loud here. No promises :)

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    Quote from drhotwing1

    My thought would be to 'grab' the tablet from the seat and hold it on your hand using the Oculus Touch controller and use your finger to swipe to turn pages. Again, just a concept thinking out loud here. No promises :)

    I've never got my head around how this would work swapping between holding the yoke and placing your controllers somewhere they can be grabbed easily. When GloveOne finally release their product then I can see it all working - you just need to sync the placement of the physical yoke with the virtual one.... or just support LeapMotion so you can avoid controllers and just reach out with your hands.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Spit40

    I've never got my head around how this would work swapping between holding the yoke and placing your controllers somewhere they can be grabbed easily. When GloveOne finally release their product then I can see it all working - you just need to sync the placement of the physical yoke with the virtual one.... or just support LeapMotion so you can avoid controllers and just reach out with your hands.

    With the Touch controllers you can do just that; reach out with your hands. My thoughts are to use your hands fully as you would in a real flightdeck. No yoke controller. You would also be able to bind the flightcontrol to one of the axis on the Touch as well. Kind of a hybrid approach here.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    I've got rather a nice yoke by Aircraft Controls Engineering. Very nice weight and action, so i'm kind of hoping to carry on using that. I would have thought people with a saitek would still rather use that.

    Quote from Spit40



    Am I (and JvanE) the only one who flies this way and experiences this problem?

    Nope, I only fly stick and rudder (and mostly military so not much info really). No flight plan, no VOR, no whatever.

    Maybe notes (or a map with names and features) would add some, but without them I manage anyway.

    It's a great lesson in geography and let me tell you my knowledge of the country has improved much, and I knew the southwest pretty well already.

    Finding LV at night taking off from LA was tough at first, you just guess the heading and fly, then by feel. During the day, just keep your markers (freeways, towns, dry lakes, etc.. in check), super easy really.

    Nowadays I "cheat" I use the HUD button, which gives me airports codes and names, and mileage. Still not much of an aid, you still need to memorize what is where, but it gives you a much better placement.

    There are many places in the southwest where I can be dropped blind in the desert and I pretty much know where I am.

    Now NY, not so much, I still get lost a lot because I don't know where towns are on the map. So I fly, try to find something, find it or not, then when I exit I check with google maps and refine the experience. After a while you just can fly from pretty much anywhere to anywhere, you recognize mountains, valleys, towns, roads, rivers, lakes, etc...

    And that's the super fun scenery of FS2, so much to see and discover.

    Like today's flight: take off from Sedona (super special air force base, the Sedona Airport Vortex brings me happiness^^), 2 hour flight below 200 ft in canyons and what not (to avoid radar detection, complete EM silence too, but for that I have no choice, it comes that way (no radar, no weapons)), corner speed (for maneuverability and stealth) all the way south for a simulated bombing run somewhere around Gila Bend (I won't name the target here, pick anything, use your imagination). Pop up for simulated bombing run (thus I presume interceptors sent after me), so quick diversion, drop back on the deck, evasive run and back to Lake Havasu for landing (again all below 200 some feet AGL including landing approach (you fly the airport, don't know the runway direction, find out visually, initiate a turn, drop everything and put it down, heavy wind, turbulence, thermals, lots of clouds, all there). Yeehaa! It's a hell of a run 500 kt 200 ft and below between terrain features and fun fun fun.

    No map, nothing, just a good idea of headings, and geo feature to use for the run, and at less than 200 ft it's hard to get your bearings as your horizon is pretty close, on purpose. It's tough but it's what makes it fun.

    I wish I had fuel implemented as well as some adversary AI, or online, or collaborative possibilities (wingman, RIO), but hey it is what it is, so imagination makes the play.

    Here I'll give you a fun waypoint on the way: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/34.58…m/data=!3m1!1e3

    Thanks ussiowa. Well i guess there are a lot of different ways to fly. Maybe i should just switch to one that doesn't need functionality that FS2 currently lacks.

    Quote from Spit40

    I'm reluctant to post this after such good news about Colorado, but whenever I fly I get this feeling. Actually JvanE first used the term "locked in" to describe how he feels when he flies FS2 in VR, which is the only way I fly. I like to jump in and take a flight from A to B. I like to use GA like the Cessna or Baron but I don't like to use the navigation systemand have green markers guide me all the way. My preference is to use good old fashioned pilotage and VORs. Then I hit the problem of how I note down and access the info while flying. Yes its immersive in VR but you have no hands or reference materials. The Steam app for overlaying a browser window proved to be too flaky and awkward to use.

    Am I (and JvanE) the only one who flies this way and experiences this problem?

    Glad I am not the only one. ;) And good to see IPACS is thinking about various solutions! Although I have to add that no matter what solutions there will be I will probably always have some sort of 'locked in' feeling with VR because somehow I am always aware of the fact I am actually sitting on a chair behind my computer and I can't easily see what's actually there around me. But well, maybe this has to do with the current need to use your hands in the real world all the time (joystick, keybaord, etc.).

    Quote from drhotwing1

    With the Touch controllers you can do just that; reach out with your hands.

    I heard that option before but seems to me your arms will get pretty tired soon of you have to hold them slightly high in front of you all the time. But we'll see how it turns out (in the far away future). Not having to do ANYTHING outside of the virtual world will certainly help to get rid of that 'locked in syndrome'. ;)

    Quote from Spit40

    Thanks ussiowa. Well i guess there are a lot of different ways to fly. Maybe i should just switch to one that doesn't need functionality that FS2 currently lacks.

    That said I'd be very happy with full cockpit control with "hands" like leap motion, all buttons functional, radar, maps, and nav stuff enabled, etc.. then EMCON would have to be pilot choice. Also a map available on a tablet, or some kind of notebook. I thought you guys had found a solution with OpenVR or similar.

    Quote from ussiowa

    That said I'd be very happy with full cockpit control with "hands" like leap motion, all buttons functional, radar, maps, and nav stuff enabled, etc.. then EMCON would have to be pilot choice. Also a map available on a tablet, or some kind of notebook. I thought you guys had found a solution with OpenVR or similar.

    The OpenVR solution (OpenDesktopVR I think its called) was too clumsy. It was an overlay on the FS2 screen so any mouse click performed on say a Google map would click through to FS2 behind it and cause some random change. I kept opening the doors on the cold'n'dark version of the Cessna !

    Also it needs me to run in Steam mode rather than native Oculus mode which at times caused noticeable stutters.