Request for Improvements

1st Official Post
    • Official Post

    That is being considered, thank you for your suggestion :)

    I have a question for the second request: under which circumstances do you want to have the trim stored? Because when you go to the location screen and select the approach or the takeoff some place on the map the trim is automatically set to a new value so that you don't need to trim. If some trim is not correct after you've selected one of these positions then we can just adjust the trim value without a need to save the trim setting. I'm guessing you want the trim to be saved when you are mid flight and exit out of the sim, right?

    OK, maybe there's a better solution. Here's what's up. I'm trying to minimize the amount of time it takes to trim the plane for straight and level flight. I take off from location xyz, flaps up, get to desired altitude, set cruise throttle, etc. (I've centered the sticks in the settings>controls>calibration before starting the flight -- which I'm assuming is a one-time task for a given controller.) When I let go of the stick the aircraft (in this case C172) climbs (throttle is in middle of green area on RPM gauge) and and goes into a mild left turn. I turn on autopilot to get the plane straight and level, then turn it off to see which way the plane moves. Then I apply trim for the axis in question until I can go in and out of autopilot with pitch/roll/yaw change. This takes some time. I land, and exit the sim. Next session I have to trim for straight and level all over again.

    I've got the controller set for about 10% up from low on sensitivity, and about 2% up from none on deadzone. I'm using a TM 16000 HOTAS system, which has very high resolution.

    This process needs to be done on other aircraft, which may or may not have autopilot to assist, and may require a different pitch/roll/yaw trim to fly straight and level.

    Other sims I've used remember the trim settings for a given plane, just like a real airplane would.

    P.S. I would also prefer that FS2 not change trim settings for me for different flight conditions, like take-off, climb, landing, etc. I will take care of doing that, just as in a real airplane. Perhaps you could have an auto-trim on/off setting.

    I can imagine people liking the way AFS2 loads specific settings depending on the chosen page of flight (parked, on runway, in flight) but usually this means some settings will be reset after quitting the sim and getting back to it. For instance in the Q400 the AP is always off after restarting the sim, just like the bleeds, the trim of the C172 is set to the middle again, which rarely is the position I use, etc.

    My preference would be to save EVERY possible setting when you quit the game so you get back into the plane exactly the way as it was when you left it. Just as would be the case in real life! ;)

    I have to add that I do love how AFS2 saves your location whenever you quit the game! Great feature! So AFS2 already does something I want. ;) But it would be even nicer if every option would be saved.

    Obviously this is my personal preference and I do understand the choices that have been made: loading specific presets depending on the phase of flight may be easier for new pilots to get into the sim. But in the end I do think that an option to save absolutely everything would enhance the sim experience.

    BTW Other sims I used never ever saved something just like that, not even trim settings (unless you actually saved the flight manually). The only planes I know that did save everything (the way I like) are the A2A planes.

    • Official Post

    Ah, ok.

    So you'd like to have a faster way to trim for level flight. But since you still want to take off at the beginning we can't just load your cruise trim setting, the aircraft would trimmed to far nose down to get airborne.

    If you keep the autopilot engaged the pitch trim should be set after a couple of seconds, the other axes are not trimmed by the autopilot (real world aircraft don't do this, so we're not simulating it either)

    Not initializing the aircraft in a trimmed state would just mean you're crashing more often, since the trim varies quite a lot for larger aircraft. E.g. the learjet changes from something like 7.0 degrees trimable horizontal stabilizer deflection to only 2.3 or so in cruise. You'd have to hold your trim switch for roughly 5 seconds before your aircraft would be controlable and not dive to the ground anymore. So I don't think its a good idea to make it optional to turn off that trim initialization.

    If you want to take car of the trim yourself its better to do a pattern training and not jump into final approach for example. If you select the parking position your takeoff trim will most likely not be set as well.

    Quote from Jet-Pack

    So you'd like to have a faster way to trim for level flight. But since you still want to take off at the beginning we can't just load your cruise trim setting, the aircraft would trimmed to far nose down to get airborne.

    How about having an auto-trim on/off option in the settings, and save the airplane trim settings on exit, and let the user decide how they want to handle it (your way or theirs). I appreciate your going with the Apple philosophy and removing decision making from the user, but I guess that's why I have a PC -- user customization. :)

    • Official Post

    This isn't about user customization here, we do things as close to reality as possible. There really isn't auto-trim in a real aircraft unless you want to count autopilot engage where the autopilot trims out the aircraft.

    In reading this I'm still not too sure what you mean by auto-trim as trimming is different in different configurations and flight conditions.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    By "auto-trim" I mean the program changes the trim on you without asking. Or am I confused on this? The impression I have from reading posts here is that FS2 sets up the trim for you under certain conditions. Yes, make the sim just like a real plane -- setting of trims is done by the pilot, and the next time you fly the plane the trims are still where you left them. But by having an on/off switch a student pilot could let the sim trim the plane, whereas an advanced pilot could do everything themself.

    But back to the original issue -- having to re-trim the aircraft everytime you fly it. Apparently I'm odd-man-out on this, so forget this request.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    • Official Post

    I agree with you at least for the short term, until the ability to save flight plans and configurations, that when you go back to the main menu or even quit then in your next session press start you should be in the exact same configuration as where you left off. This has some issues currently that needs to still be resolved.

    In real life, if you set your trim it should be in the same place if you leave and come back. Unless one of your FBO friends sneak into your aircraft and fully trim your aircraft to mess with you (which happened to me actually) :)

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    I'm with all of you. Before every flight you have to check and set the trim (all other things too). Maybe somebody else flow this aircraft in the meantime or has fiddled at the trim and so the configuration has changed. On the other hand when nobody touch the aircraft you will find the configuration as you have left it.

    My solution is to save the whole configuration (loacation, weather and all other also) when the flight is quit/save and re-establish when you open the last/saved flight. When you create a new flight , the aircraft should be automatically configured/trimmed matching the situation like cruising, arrival, taxi, parking.

    For beginner and just-for-fun pilots there can be additional helper functions like auto-trim, auto-start, auto-landing. This is not contradictory because it can all be done by the copilot. :);)

    • Official Post

    We'll look into other means of "auto-trim". Right now this is not so much an issue due to the CG being constant but we'll have to think of better ways to trim the aircraft at the beginning of the simulation. Maybe the copilot can quickly trim the aircraft for us at the beginning of the flight or something like this.

    Just to make this clear: I'm not talking about trimming while you are flying, just for the first instant after your aircraft was placed to a new location so that no matter where you place it on the map it is always trimmed correctly, for approach or takeoff after you clicked the location screen position.