[Solved] 3DSMax Airport misplacement on photo ground

  • Dear IPACS team, and dear everybody reading this thread,


    After a forced 3-months break away from 3DSMax I could finally resume trying out to design a simple airfield for AFS2.


    Since the beginning I'm facing a misplacement issue, so I quickly redid everything from scratch to illustrate this reproducible issue, hope somebody can provide some help in finding out the root cause.


    Here is the result in AFS2, clearly showing the runway, taxiways and apron misplacement by approximately 8-10 meters compared to the ground photo.

    [Blocked Image: http://i68.tinypic.com/ixxeeh.jpg]


    Below is a snapshot from FSET as I prepared the background tile. Note that I centered on purpose my image on a cross on the runway, featuring a convenient reference. Image center coordinates are still visible.

    [Blocked Image: http://i64.tinypic.com/o5dibm.jpg]


    The resulting inf file

    [Blocked Image: http://i63.tinypic.com/33bemts.jpg]


    The center latitude and longitude, both computed exactly from the Area corners, and from the decimal conversion of the center coordinates displayed in FSET => same result.

    At the bottom, the conversion of the FSET window size from nm into meters.


    [Blocked Image: http://i68.tinypic.com/2n7ehr7.jpg]


    Below, the reference image loaded as background in 3DSMax, note the plane size corresponds to the calculated values.

    [Blocked Image: http://i65.tinypic.com/jpcso6.jpg]


    The 3DSMax mesh structure with runways and taxiways, nicely aligned to the background image

    [Blocked Image: http://i65.tinypic.com/rhombn.jpg]


    Note that the center of the picture matches pretty well with my reference cross on the runway

    [Blocked Image: http://i66.tinypic.com/295q4z.jpg]


    And my TSC file with accurate center coordinates

    [Blocked Image: http://i67.tinypic.com/103a64h.jpg]


    Everything converts very nicely with the SDK dated 23.11.2017, no error, but my airstrip is clearly misplaced.


    Has anybody an idea what went wrong ?


    Thanks in advance

    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

    Edited once, last by Trespassers ().

  • How did you calculate the dimensions in meters or are you sure fset does that correctly? Did you/they use the correct local radius from the spheroid earth?

    I did it as described in the Wiki tuto, using the dimensions displayed in FSET:

    Quote from Wiki tuto

    Now take the nautical miles noted on the FSET screen and convert them to meters, these will be used for the length/width of the panel that you need to make for the reference image. In this example the nautical miles (nm) noted on FSET are: 1.028 x 0.352, these get converted to: 1903.856 x 651.904 meters

    In my case:

    in X => 0.87 [nm] * 1'852 [m/nm] = 1'611.24[m]

    in Y => 0.865 [nm] * 1'852 [m/nm] = 1'601.98[m]


    Let's assume FSET provided erroneous [nm] data. One can simulate it by entering different distances in X and Y. My image and, hence, my resulting airfield will be distorted, but since my design and its placement in AFS2 are both referenced at the center (the cross on the runway in my case), the center should always match accurately. The more distance from the center, the more distortion.


    In other words, unless I missed anything, I shouldn't get such a constant offset by just entering wrong X/Y dimensions, should I?


    Let's assume now FSET provides erroneous coordinates (which is not the case) : my photo ground texture would be misplaced in AFS2 (once again it isn't the case), but since

    a) the ground texture,

    b) my 3DSMax project and

    c) the TSC file (placement in AFS2)

    all use the very same set of coordinates from FSET, they should all have the same misplacement.

    I shouldn't get an offset between airfield and ground photo.


    There must be something else, but I cannot figure out what.

    Any idea ?


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • Hi Antoine


    I also find this sort of error. I have noticed the images of the UK tend to be taken at a slight angle as they get more zoomed in, making the ground polygon texture I use to build appear slightly warped and sometimes rotated slightly.


    I position some tall helper objects (see attached, I used 5 in total) to help align things so they are correct in FS2 and then warp my image I use for building which is normally more zoomed than the normal fset stuff to help align things in the modeling program so they are then correct in FS2.


    Steve

  • Try putting your tower position on the exact center point that you are using. Then comment out the runway. Is the camera centered on the runway centerline of the picture?

    Ok, I will check this tonight and report here.


    Thank you Steve for your input. Your poles are a good idea to check placement and get things aligned. In my case, I did both the ground texture and the airport overlay based on exactly the same single photo, therefore my issue isn't related to projection differences between zoom levels...


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • So did I for Leeds Bradford but its still out ;)

    If I read you properly it means there might be a systematical placement issue somewhere in the conversion process.

    In my case I've been facing this phenomenon since the beginning, but I did a lot of trial and error to get my runway displayed and figure out how to draw taxiways and apron.

    So eventually, I restarted everything from scratch with a new, larger ground photo and a new 3DSMax design, but the resulting misplacement is still exactly the same (displayed in this thread).


    Where do you "cheat" then to get the placement corrected in AFS2? in the tsc file? I.e. after conversion you shift your whole project until it matches the photo ground?


    Thanks for supporting

    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

    Edited once, last by Trespassers ().

  • If you are taking the distance in FSET and converting it in 3DS Max to make your reference image plain then placing the box on center pivot point you are doing it correctly. You then need to take the center coordinates from FSET (the ones they give you) and use them in your airport file.


    As larrylynx mentioned, some maps have area photos set at an angle so your placement could end up wrong.


    You can simply move your scenery in 3DS Max to make that small adjustment. Once you do it once, everything you add should align properly.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • As larrylynx mentioned, some maps have area photos set at an angle so your placement could end up wrong.

    Thank you for your input. It is not the case here, there must be something wrong somewhere else, but I cannot figure out what...


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • Did you follow my suggestion above?

    Wilco asap. Not at my sim computer yet... I think it gives me some ideas... thanks !

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • A big Thank You to all of you who provided ideas and hints, the decisive move came from Jeff... I eventually found out what was wrong!


    Actually, there's an important step missing in the Wiki tuto: the background image must be recentered exactly on the axis origin.


    In my case unfortunately, it was slightly displaced - nothing visible without zooming in at the image borders. Both the background picture and the airport design do hide the 3DSMax reference axis. They looked centered, but they weren't exactly, that was the resulting offset.


    BTW I fiddled about with various tools in 3DSMax but couldn't find a function to automatically center my background polygon on (0, 0, 0). Is there any such feature?

    I eventually recentered my design by selecting everything, then zooming max in at the origin and move carefully the mouse pointer as close as possible to X=0 and Y=0 (displayed at screen bottom), then left click => the design recenters on the mouse pointer.

    It is not perfect: the best I could achieve is however a few cm away from 0, quite accurate enough for airport design!


    Now I can move to next topic in airport design (;-)

    [Blocked Image: http://i66.tinypic.com/i24v1j.jpg]


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • BTW I fiddled about with various tools in 3DSMax but couldn't find a function to automatically center my background polygon on (0, 0, 0). Is there any such feature?

    Well, after restarting today I was now able to type in zero values in the bottom fields after selecting my reference picture polygon and "select and move" tool, which recentered the picture at the reference.


    For any reason, after browsing in several tools and menus yesterday I came to a mode where this didn't work. Still lots to learn about 3DSMax, not very intuitive labyrinthine...


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.