HMD Odyssey Observations

Saltgrass · March 25, 2018 at 9:03 PM

Just to make some observations since I got most of my new system. All observations were made from the configuration below.

New motherboard with 8th generation processor.

New install of Windows Insider build 17128, which is or is close to the one to be released to the public next month.

GTX 980, for now.

Aircraft 737.

HMD Odyssey VR headset

Not using SteamVR beta

Just some general things so far.

Feedback is being received from the controllers. Now wondering about battery life.

Still making every effort to keep both controllers in the field of view to keep then from losing accuracy. I have asked Samsung community as to the availability of an external tracker but that option does not currently seem to be available.

I am making a greater effort to look through the sweet spot in the center of the viewer, which does help with instrument clarity. Possibly the Video card upgrade in a few days will help.

I was flying a route from point A to point B and during the climb, the throttles went to idle several times for no reason I could see. The aircraft stopped its climb several times without a reason I could determine and it seemed to happen at around 12,000 feet on the way to 25,000 feet. These situations never happened when using my old system. The throttle reduction and climb deviations did not seem to be related.

Right now I will say the biggest problem with the Hands and the Odyssey headset is the loss of controller position accuracy.

Thanks for reading.

Saltgrass · March 30, 2018 at 7:36 PM

Well, system completely upgraded.. GTX 1080 Ti, 32 GB memory, the works. The VR video has still not improved, not even one little bit.

I am wondering, since the resolution on the Samsung VR Headset is 3200x1440 if it could be related to mismatched resolutions since I am running on Windowed mode but the monitor is 2560x1080.

Or could it be going through Steam is causing the problem and using a DVD install, without going through Steam might make a difference. But will the Samsung Odyssey run in VR with the DVD version.

Pretty frustrated at this point. The Sim flies fine but the visuals being so bad I just can't keep using the VR.

Thanks

Tomas · March 30, 2018 at 7:52 PM

You have to set Up right hertz for every resolution

kenventions · March 30, 2018 at 9:04 PM

Salt, I fly FS2 in VR with a GTX1080 / Odyssey combo and Aerofly graphics set to U,H,H,M,L,L and it's buttery smooth (no stutters) - the image quality reminds me of the 1024x768 days - don't expect HD / 1080P quality.

Check the SteamVR beta VIDEO settings and temporarily check the MANUAL box to set what SuperSampling value was calculated based on your graphics card - mine showed 1.72 - yours will obviously be higher (maybe 2.00+). If it's showing something >1.00 then make sure your Aerofly VR Render Scale Factor = 1.0 otherwise you'll make your graphics card work twice as hard.

When you say visuals are bad, do you mean you are getting stutters or that the image seems like lower resolution than you expected?

My suggestions above should help with stutters. If both SteamVR beta VIDEO = 1.00 and Aerofly VR RSF = 1.0, then you should increase the Aerofly VR RSF to at least 1.50 to sharpen the cockpit instruments (may want to test with the Cessna 172 since the panel is close).

Pilot in command · March 31, 2018 at 2:45 AM

I tried it with a Lenovo explorer and had no problem. I use a joystick with my left hand though and control the instruments with right hand.

Saltgrass · March 31, 2018 at 4:04 AM

Thomas, I don't seem to have any control over how the video is displayed in the headset except for the VR settings in the program. My current system is using 144 Hz but the prior system was running 60 Hz. No difference has been noticed. Even wearing glasses makes no difference.

Pilot in command, the control of the sim is not a problem. I am referring to the graphic presentation.

Thanks Ken, before I started this I was reading your comments about graphic adjustments. The sim's performance is perfectly smooth, it is the video of the instruments I have a problem with. If I get really close, they become clear...

I have tried the Beta before without help but will try it again tomorrow. The panel on the 737 and the A320 I tried are just as fuzzy.

What this tells me, after upgrading Motherboard, processor, memory and doubling the performance of the GPU, the problem is something over which I have no control. Perhaps it is something else but I would like to try without Steam involved, but I don't think that is possible with the Odyssey headset.

Since the new Vibe Pro has the same resolution as the Odessey, would even that help. Is anyone, currently with any VR Headset, getting a clear VR picture of the instruments. The view on the monitor in the VR window is also clear. I am currently running the Win 10 Preview build 17133 which you might see on April 10th. It behaves the same as the normal public Win 10 version, except the mouse cursor is freezing.

Other games seem to be OK, probably because they do not require the type of graphics a flight sim does... But from what I have seen, it may be several more years before VR really becomes usable...

Thanks all..

Saltgrass · April 1, 2018 at 5:44 AM

I have now gone through two days of making adjustments to the display settings. It seems there are three places where such settings might be.

Windows Mixed Reality, although I have no way of know what effect they have on the game.

SteamVR where there is a Developers listing with some options.

The game itself and its VR options.

I have found nothing which showed any signs of improving the visuals in the game. I was playing with the A320, which behaves a little differently than I am used to, and I could not read the messages popping up on the glass, which were important. I saw a post on the Steam site where it was mentioned the Vibe also have a "sweet spot" and the surrounding graphics deteriorated rapidly.

I suppose, if you want to use the current VR offerings, then fine. It seems to work in some type of games but ones that require good visuals, maybe not. I was going to purchase the new Vibe Pro, but maybe I should wait until something changes.

Thanks to all who responded.

Saltgrass · April 3, 2018 at 2:57 AM

I have been learning some more things today. While watching YouTube videos concerning the VR Headsets I realize there is a sweet spot in all the headsets. I have been trying to use that more and have settings which seem to make things less fuzzy. I do seem to be getting a "Glimmer" over the instruments. Maybe I am using too high a video quality.

I realize if the batteries are low in the controller, it may drop offline more often.

My new video card has LEDs to indicate temperature. Using those, it seems running the program on the desktop uses more GPU power that it does when running in VR. Because of the claims that VR needs more processing power, I am having a hard time understanding this situation. The Headset does use HDMI while the Monitor uses Display Port, if that might be involved.

The hands seem to be working fine with the Odyssey.

Thanks..

qwerty42 · April 3, 2018 at 5:03 AM

Hi Saltgrass,

I don't have the Odyssey, I have the Rift, so I can't give you specific feedback for your HMD. However I might be able to at least tell you what you should expect if things are working correctly.

Firstly, current gen VR devices (even the Odyssey and Vive Pro) are not going to look as sharp as any modern monitor. This is because they are using about the same number of pixels as a typical monitor to represent a MUCH larger angular field of view. (This isn't totally accurate but close enough for getting a basic idea.)

Because of this, you likely will be able to see individual pixels if you go looking for them, as well as the very tiny space between the pixels (this is referred to as 'screen door effect'.)

Despite this, you still shouldn't be having that difficult of a time making out the gauges in the planes. In a plane like the Pitts biplane where the gauges are very close to your face, they should actually look quite sharp, because they are taking up a relatively sizable chunk of your field of view and therefore are being rendered with many more pixels than if the gauges were further away from you.

As far as things that could affect the visuals in your HMD, I can think of a few very important ones:

(1) I don't know how it works with the Odyssey, but on the Rift and Vive there is an adjustable spacing between the lenses, called IPD adjustment (that stands for inter-pupillary distance). This is an adjustment that matches the horizontal distance between the lenses to match the spacing between your own eyes. If this isn't set correctly, it will not only make things blurrier for you, but also might contribute toward discomfort or headaches when using your HMD.

(2) Lens 'sweet spot.' It sounds like you're already aware of this, but yes, it's real. It's critical that you have the HMD placed at the right height in front of your eyes to get the central field of vision sharp. This is similar to the importance of IPD adjustment, except instead of adjusting the lenses sideways for sharpness, this is a matter of moving the lenses up and down relative to your eyes until you find the range of peak sharpness.

Again, I'm not sure about the Odyssey, but since it's higher resolution than my Rift, I'd expect it to look better than the Rift. If (1) and (2) are set correctly, then what you see in the center of your field of vision should be 'sharp', but somewhat pixelated. In other words, it won't look crisp due to being able to see individual pixels, BUT those pixels themselves should still look sharp, not blurred.

The last thing that makes a very substantial difference is supersampling. Supersampling is a method of anti-aliasing that can really clean up the visuals in VR but requires a lot of extra processing power to do so. There are two places where this is set--SteamVR has its own settings for this, and within AeroFly they also have a slider for supersampling (it's called 'Render Scale Factor' in the Aerofly menus). If your graphics card can handle it (and a 1080ti should definitely be able to), setting in-game supersampling to something between 1.5 and 2 should give you a clearer and crisper view of gauges and smaller text. Ideally you should only have this set either from SteamVR or within Aerofly, not both places.

If everything is working correctly and the above items are setup correctly (and assuming your own vision is good too), the gauges in all the planes should be readable from normal distances (though probably not as clearly as you'd like), and easily readable if you move your head a little bit closer to them. From your posts, I can't really tell if your problems are just due to your expectations being too high for current-gen VR systems, or if there is legitimately something wrong with your setup.

TL;DR Gauges in VR will definitely not look as good as even a 1080p desktop monitor--you will see some visible pixellation. However they should still be readable and if you move your head closer to them they should be *easily* readable.

TomSimMuc · April 3, 2018 at 6:59 AM

Hi querty42,

Very well written. Your article belongs into every FAQ dealing with VR goggles.

Regards,

Thomas

Saltgrass · April 3, 2018 at 7:45 AM

@querty42, I certainly appreciate your explanations. Being fairly new to this any info helps.

The Odyssey has the IPD adjustments and I have set those the best I can.

I am not seeing a screen door effect. In fact, the only time the graphics are good is when I get very close. The FOV on the Odyssey is 110 degrees, just as will be the Vibe Pro. I run a 2560x1080 monitor @144 hz and the resolution of the Odyssey is 2880x1600, as the Vibe Pro will be. I do not know of a way to confirm the resolution or refresh rate of the Odyssey headset. It is not listed as a separate monitor so no info is available, unless you know of a way. I cannot keep my head under the glare shield so I can read the instruments.

With supersampling, I have tried all the way to 6 with SteamVR and 2.0 with the program VR settings. All I really got was a glimmering of the graphics.

"If my own vision is good", from what I am seeing makes no difference. I have tried glasses with different magnification and I see no appreciable difference in the presentation.

My problems may be a mix of my expectations and the capability of the VR headset. I just keep seeing things I do not understand. If VR takes so much of GPU resources, why in mine not even trying. The GPU never seems to increase its cooling needs during VR events. Could the visuals be restricted in some manner in order to maintain compatibility with other systems?

The unknown for me is if the SteamVR using Windows Mixed Reality, is in any way involved in this situation. Should I expect the new Vibe Pro with the increased resolution to be better than the Odyssey because it does not need the SteamVR for Window Reality? I was going to purchase a new Vibe Pro, but now I feel I will just be wasting my money.

Don't misunderstand, what I am seeing is not just with the Aerofly program. Even Windows Mixed Reality seems to have disappointing graphics on their own programs. I can forgive not being able to read a paper in mixed reality but I need to be able to see messages such as those put up on the glass of the A320.

Thanks again, I will continue to work on this to see if I can find some type of improvement. There are actually times when the visuals are better, so I will hold out some hope things will improve. The virtual hands do work great....!

Saltgrass · April 3, 2018 at 6:12 PM

I have made some progress today. Since being frustrated with trying to get better graphics, I decided to go the other way and reduce the graphic quality.

I started with the lowest and noticed I could read the panels much better. So far I have raised the quality to the next level and I am still able to see all the information on the CRTs in front and even on the center console of the A320. It seems lowering the graphics and lowering the brightness of the displays has made the visual much better.

I will be doing more testing to see how high I can raise the graphics, but right now I am happy with the visual presentation.

Thanks all...

drhotwing1 (IPACS) · April 3, 2018 at 6:18 PM Official Post

I'm going to mention some things here that I'm sure you already know, but due to your problems I have to make sure.

You are flying over an area that has aerial images (DLC) installed correct? The scenery is very low res if you aren't

Also, you can't run Aerofly with supersampling at 6x. In fact, I recommend the following configuration to get the best results (based on your 1080 ti GPU)

* All graphics settings at ULTRA (you can set tree coverage/clouds/etc. however you wish)

* Render Scale Factor at 1.50

* Set your NVidia Control Panel settings to DEFAULT SETTINGS

* Don't use any 3rd party enhancers/overclockers, etc.

* For VR turn VSync OFF

If you follow my above steps you should see very quality graphics in Aerofly with your PC

whitav8 · April 3, 2018 at 6:57 PM

One quick comment - the EFIS glass cockpit aircraft instruments will be the worst VR experience since the fonts are small and color choices (for VR) are not great. Try the other cockpits - the F15/F18 are pretty good as well as the Pitts.

Also you say:

"run a 2560x1080 monitor @144 hz and the resolution of the Odyssey is 2880x1600"

- but the horizontal resolution is split into two - half for each eye so it is really 1440x1600 and those pixels are spread over greater than 100 degrees while when you use a monitor, we typically only have 50 to 70 degrees of Field of View so the pixel density is less in VR.

Keep adjusting

Dave W.

Saltgrass · April 7, 2018 at 12:31 AM

Thanks folks, if I turn up the graphics all I get is mush. The presentation is so grainy I can't stand to stay in the sim....

Outside scenery is not important. I would turn it off if possible to improve the visuals.

If you start with the Windows Mixed Reality portal, you have settings for video quality and refresh rate. If you go into SteamVR you see settings for global and then for individual programs. Then the settings in the program... Too many combinations for trying to find a good setting.

Even folks at Steam think I am a little nuts if I set the graphics to minimum... But that does seem to be what it takes.

The comment about the monitor, was me wondering if that resolution was having some effect.

I changed the settings to try to get them better and lost the acceptable version... Now I have to try and get back there again. Having someone report the Vibe Pro has good visuals is a problem. But the two units do not run games in the same configuration.

Thanks again... I will keep testing..

HiFlyer · April 7, 2018 at 3:40 AM

In your graphics card settings, return everything to default if it is not already there. If you are using anything like Nvidia inspector, Do likewise.

Return all Steamvr settings to default, if they are not already there.

Return Aerofly to default settings.

If you wear glasses normally, you will likely need them for clear vr viewing as well.

See if any of that helps!

Saltgrass · April 7, 2018 at 7:16 PM

Thanks HiFlyer, yesterday I decided to uninstall Windows Mixed Reality and reset the headset. After doing all of that I realized I had been under the impression I had to start the WMR Preview to get the headset to work... Once I stopped doing that, the graphics pretty much returned to normal and I am able to run in Ultra again.

Thanks for everyone's help, sorry I was doing such a dumb thing.

Saltgrass · April 13, 2018 at 4:23 PM

My situation has improved in that now I can run the full graphics without the distortions as long as some settings are kept restricted.

I have always contended, with the Odyssey headset, the view will clear up if I get close to the instruments. I can put my head over the yoke of the 737 and see the panel fine. I can move it back one inch and the instruments get fuzzy and with certain settings, the heading bug will disappear.

I also believe, the yoke on the 737 sits too far from the instrument panel. If it were to be 8 to 12 inches closer to the instruments it should help with the clarity of the instruments.

I was wondering if anyone using a Vive Pro headset had the same experience with the clarity of view diminishing rapidly at a certain distance from the instrument panels? A comparison with the 737 would be beneficial just to stay standardized.

Thanks all..

HMD Odyssey Observations

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