Request for Screenshots - B737 - 500

  • Hey Gang,

    I am away from my PC for a few more days and I am gathering research data for an article that I am writing on the Boeing 737 family of airplanes. I sent myself a few screenshots but, I overlooked side views of the throttle quadrant and a good view of the lower center console.

    Would someone be so kind to post a few hd images of our AFS2 B737-500 cockpit. Specifically, a full width shot of the panel, detailed shots of the throttle quadrant and center communications and fuel panel down low between the pilots.

    Boeing made a lot of variants within the model series to pacify all the different carriers. I am trying to identify, if possible, the actual model of the AFS2 B737. I appears to be a very early 500, yet it has round gauges and most historians say it should be EFIS.

    This is a fun plane to fly, it just needs a few little tweaks. :)

    Regards,

    Ray

  • When the first facebook screen shot previews were released I thought the new FS2 737 was a -200. After a lot of searching online I found a few references to analog panel -500s. They must have been selected by less flush operators and those wanting as little retraining of their -200 crews as possible. The single FMC/CDU and the Cat II autopilot also suggest a cheap fit.

    The presence of a pair of EPR gauges makes it look like an edited -200 panel. Calculating EPR in a high bypass turbofan is very complex as the ballance between the fan and the core shifts during different phases of the flight. Rolls Royce offer it for their big 3 spool engines, rpms alone would be a handfull to assess.

    The basic wing design, wingspan, flaps and length of the -200 and -500 are very similar. I wonder if the Aero 737 started as a late autopilot -200?

    Ray what sort of resolution and lighting do you want?

  • When the first facebook screen shot previews were released I thought the new FS2 737 was a -200. After a lot of searching online I found a few references to analog panel -500s. They must have been selected by less flush operators and those wanting as little retraining of their -200 crews as possible. The single FMC/CDU and the Cat II autopilot also suggest a cheap fit.

    The presence of a pair of EPR gauges makes it look like an edited -200 panel. Calculating EPR in a high bypass turbofan is very complex as the ballance between the fan and the core shifts during different phases of the flight. Rolls Royce offer it for their big 3 spool engines, rpms alone would be a handfull to assess.

    The basic wing design, wingspan, flaps and length of the -200 and -500 are very similar. I wonder if the Aero 737 started as a late autopilot -200?

    Ray what sort of resolution and lighting do you want?

    Thanks for the screenshots. Yes, I came to the same conclusions. This looks like a 200 Adv panel and not a 500. The epr gauge for the High bypass CFMI engine is confusing. Also the round flight gauges seem to at odds with the 500 description specs.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • The centre console is also 2 boxes wide. The only -500 pics I found were of glass panel, 3 boxes wide centre console cockpits. Getting in and out of these seats must have been easy.

    Seeing how few -500s were built there cannot be many planes with this odd configuration.

  • Yes, there are a lot of panel and cockpit indicators pointing to the 200 adv. I am wading through a ton of old Southwest Airline blogs and hope to shed some light on the mismatch here. I wish IPACS would tell us the reg or s/n of the model used for the flight sim.

    The additional one radio width addition to the console is easy to spot. I am yet to find any panel photo of a 500 with the old round flight gauges on the pilot’s side. They all have one of three different EADI square glass units.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • Ray,

    Here is a great reference about the earliest 737-300/400/500s:

    http://www.b737.org.uk/flightinsts.htm

    Select the menu entry called Classic Flight Instruments

    Dave W.

    thanks Dave, yes there are several sites dedicated to the 737 family. I am finding a lot of nitty gritty details at the Southwest Airlines and Lufthansa media sites. The startup and growth of SWA with only 737 equipment makes a fascinating story. Without SWA we might not have any NG or MAX models. Boeing almost stopped with the 200 Adv model.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • Overloaded,

    I really appreciate you taking the time and making a special effort to post all those screenshots for me. The more I look at them the more I am convinced this is not an ordinary or standard -500. Maybe it is an early prototype that was returned and certified as a -500 during the production run. It could have been a one off built for an existing -200 Adv customer to try to get a firm order for a lot or something along those lines.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • Ray,

    Did you actually click on the link I mentioned on the initial page called Classic Flight Instruments - here is a direct one.

    http://www.b737.org.uk/flightinsts.ht…ght_Instruments

    where it says "The first 737-300's were not fitted with EFIS and the flight instruments were almost identical to the 737-200Adv"

    (400s and 500s are just size differences) had those analog gauges. The actual gauges on the IPACS version don't agree in appearance but are similar.

    Dave W.

  • Yes I did. A week or so prior, actually. The 500 was more than a size difference from the 300 and came 6 years later. After about 6 months of 300 production they were all EFIS, All 400 and all 500 therefore were EFIS or so we are told. Only variants were specific to carriers with large orders, like SWA, Lufstansa, Continental.

    My best guess for now is our -500 was a prototype that was reintroduced to production then discounted as a one-off to entice future orders or sold to an existing customer that was still using the 200 Adv. The -500 was designed to replace the -200, the 300 and 400 were larger capacity units.

    My only problem in not knowing more about this one is that We can’t possibly know how to fly it if we don’t know the specs. Especially the MCP and AP integration. It certainly is not a true blue -500 according to the images and articles that I have found. SWA and Lufstansa have a lot of detailed descriptions and cockpit images online. Google a Gogo Air and take a look at their -500 or SWA and Lufstansa when they retired them in 2016/2017.

    The epr gauge is totally out of place with CFM high bypass engines. The radio units don’t match the -500, the 2 unit wide console s/b 3 wide, and a few other discrepancies. I can certainly fly without EFIS, heck, I don’t even miss it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I really like the plane. I like it a lot. That is why I wish Jan or someone would publish a flight tutorial for us to learn how to fly it properly or how it was designed to be flown. Meanwhile, I keep adding to my familiarization flight and making test flights. This one is fun to fly to FL370 and back, for sure.

    Thanks for the link and follow-up.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • I posted 'edited -200' hints ages ago but got no nibbles.

    I had posted several pre-FS2 comments along the lines of it is obviously a -200! The facebook preview images included a vague sideways view that was a bit engine ambivalent - remember that both the -100/200 and all subsequent '37s all had high mounted engines not at all like the B-47 or Dash 80 engine pods.

    I base my performance around reducing to 170 kt = flaps 25 and increasing past 200 = flaps up. We have no performance manual or weights so it is all suck it and see.

    (It might posibly be a virtual 'one off').

    Edited once, last by Overloaded (June 23, 2018 at 2:36 AM).

  • Overloaded,

    I have found a fairly fuzzy (not HD and not very sharp) photo of one of the SWA -500 that was among the last to be retired. Surprisingly, the panel is very similar, other than the differences we have both noted. This SWA -500 does not have EFIS so that in itself is encouraging.

    I am searching for a sharp photo to compare to our screenshots.

    Regards,

    Ray

  • This is SWA 737-5H4 (500) N506SW so it was probably in the first 10 500 models built for SWA in early 1990. Non - EFIS and very similar to AFS2 version. It also has the narrow center console - only 2 units wide. Very encouraging.

  • Looks like Boeing just left out the EPR gauges, the next one down in a -200 was N1. The Aero version swapped around the top two '-200' gauges instead of leaving one out as in your real -500. I see the right seater got to play with the CDU. I'd thought the Aero HP fuel cocks sat a bit low in 'on'.

    Well done Ray, you have an actual N number after all and someone has the original performance manual, some nice homework to be had there!

    I wonder if the Aero fuel flow numbers in the cruise are JT8D or CFM56 ? There should be a two or three fold difference. Of course it doesn't matter in Aeroland, fuel lasts for ever.

    Edited once, last by Overloaded (June 23, 2018 at 8:14 AM).

  • Yes, some progress being made. Fuel flow could become a reality in AFS2 one day. Better be saving your pennies. When I was flying the early Learjet Jet Fuel was 0.26 cents a gallon and no one thought anything about filling the tanks. Of course, the noise was deafening but what a thrill to fly.

    I will be searching for flight manuals today. I’m guessing all the Classic engines are the same with the gross weight being the main difference in performance.

    Regards,

    Ray