Time to update GPU

  • Out of curiosity, and maybe I missed it because the thread is getting longer, Oldar, what video card and what driver versions are you using for the card, the Vive and the Vive Pro? Are they all the most current versions?


    What does task manager show as far as CPU, GPU, Memory and Disk utilization. Are there any differences in them between headsets? There shouldnt be, I wouldnt imagine, but maybe there is something special about the VIVE or the VIVE Pro driver, or something that is doing something it shouldnt, like using disk % or CPU %.


    Try to create the same situation in each test. Same runway on the same airport, same plane, etc so you are comparing apples to apples. Maybe you can determine what is causing the performance drop by only changing one thing at a time.


    Also, I disable Superfetch and Windows Search on mine as they use a lot of disk randomly, and just seem to slow down my systems. I also turn off Windows Defender's real-time protection.


    -PK

  • I have the latest drivers, and I disable all Windows process using GPU Tweak II. I always compare apples and apples! I will have to check the usage figures. One thing I have noticed is that I never seem to use more than about 35% of GPU memory. Is that normal?


    Maybe I am just very sensitive to "choppiness". I find that I can run at SS 1.3 and be satisfied. If I had never owned the Oculus and seen that I can run that at 2.0 I would probably never have thought I was "disadvantaged" :P.


    I do appreciate all the help and suggestions.

    One more interesting thing to note is that with the Oculus I get better performance in OpenGl, in Vive Pro Vulcan is better.


    But I don't want anyone spending any more time trying to help me. I have the Oculus, which performs very very well. You have better things to do!

  • I also turn off Windows Defender's real-time protection.


    -PK

    You might want to reconsider that!


    I mentioned this over on the DCS World forum last week as well, when it was brought up in the VR performance thread.

    In my quest to eke out as much performance as possible from Win10 for VR.. (CV1, 1080ti, 7700k), I shut down all of the above mentioned services. Turned off Windows updates, search, etc. as well as turned off Windows Defender (no other antivirus pgr running).


    I figured I'd take a chance because the risk would probably be minimal since I only use this PC for flightsims and a couple of games. My web activity is kept to a minimum (usually flight sim forums, updates and supporting software). I have a laptop and iPad that I use for everything else.


    Well, what do you know!

    My PC starts rebooting every five minutes or so. I did a lot of troubleshooting, memory testing, virus scanning, etc. Started to suspect I had a failing power supply since it is around five years old, so maybe it's time for a replacement.


    Initially I ran Malwarebytes under a normal boot and it caught a few Trojans, which it cleaned and deleted, but the rebooting problem continued.

    Something told me to reboot in "safe-mode" and run Malwarebytes AGAIN!


    To my surprise, not only did it find a few more Trojans, it also found a Rootkit. After getting rid of them, I did a normal reboot and the problem was resolved. The PC has been running flawlessly now for more than a week.


    So.....although I do not want to use a third-party antivirus program on this PC, I will NOT turn off Windows Defender as long as I'm connected to the internet!

    And I will run a MWB scan in safe-mode periodically as a precaution.


    Just thought I'd share and maybe help others avoid something similar, because I've been using MS Windows since the first version, had viruses and Trojans before but never anything as strange as this!

    Redtail

    KFRG, KTEB, KEWR, KLGA

    ~Straighten up and fly right~


    DESKTOP: i7-7700k @5GHz (water cooled), Nvidia GTX 1080Ti FTW3, 32GB DDR4, 500GB SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, Windows 10 Home 64 bit,

    TM HOTAS Warthog (large spring removed), Saitek PRO Flight Combat Rudder Pedals, YOKO yoke!

    Laptop (gaming): Acer Predator Helios 500- Intel Core i7-8750H @4.1GHz, Nvidia GTX 1070, 32GB DDR4, 256GB SSD/1TB HDD.

    Gametrix JetSeat FSE (Flight Sim Edition)-USB Vibrating pad. Nextlevel V3 Motion Platform / Sim cockpit.

    Edited 3 times, last by Redtail ().

  • I'm a believer! :D



    https://www.howtogeek.com/2253…ows-defender-good-enough/


    "When you install Windows 10, you’ll have an antivirus program already running. Windows Defender comes built-in to Windows 10, and automatically scans programs you open, downloads new definitions from Windows Update, and provides an interface you can use for in-depth scans. Best of all, it doesn’t slow down your system, and mostly stays out of your way—which we can’t say about most other antivirus programs.

    So in short, yes: Windows Defender is good enough (as long as you couple it with a good anti-malware program, as we mentioned above..."

    Redtail

    KFRG, KTEB, KEWR, KLGA

    ~Straighten up and fly right~


    DESKTOP: i7-7700k @5GHz (water cooled), Nvidia GTX 1080Ti FTW3, 32GB DDR4, 500GB SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, Windows 10 Home 64 bit,

    TM HOTAS Warthog (large spring removed), Saitek PRO Flight Combat Rudder Pedals, YOKO yoke!

    Laptop (gaming): Acer Predator Helios 500- Intel Core i7-8750H @4.1GHz, Nvidia GTX 1070, 32GB DDR4, 256GB SSD/1TB HDD.

    Gametrix JetSeat FSE (Flight Sim Edition)-USB Vibrating pad. Nextlevel V3 Motion Platform / Sim cockpit.

  • Wise words.

    I never disable windows defender and also run Malwarebytes periodically to clean up, but have never thought to run it from a safe boot, but will in future.


    Thanks


    Mick

    Back to the reason for this thread.


    I have now had 4 days with the GTX 1080ti and I have to say I am well pleased.


    It is now possible to run AFS 2 in VR using Vulcan with AA, and a render scale factor of 2.0 in all areas except New York where I need to drop RSF a couple of notches. Also I have set graphics quality shadows to insane which has minimal impact on frames but goes some way to reduce flickering.


    Taking off from Chicago meigs (Orbx) in the Corsair, for me is, well I am really there, unbelievable, also the fast jets particularly the Aermacchi, aerobatics over Chicago fantastic.


    Have waited over 30 years for this level of realism to arrive.


    Started with an Atari 400 and tape drive (remember those)then Atari 800, progressed to pc with DX33 processor with 4mb of ram, wow was that fast................ have had almost every version of flight sim since those days.

    Must have spent thousands to arrive at today!


    Thanks to all of you for pointing me in the right direction, I guess I knew I wanted the GTX 1080ti just need a push, and thanks to IPACS for AFS2 and it's continued development.


    Thanks :)


    Mick

  • Phil,

    we haven't tested Aerofly running on the Pimax systems so we can't predict how Aerofly will run. We also can't commit to saying that the Pimax is even compatible with Aerofly at this time.

    I may pick up the Pimax 8K soon to try to benchmark it but we have no guarantees at this time.

    I run Aerofly in VR on a old i5 3gb GTX 970 4gb with an Pimax 4K : all setup at max (except shadows) and ss at 1.25 on Piplay , so run perfect with no strutter at all !

  • Is this with an Oculus or a Vive? If you are able to do this with a Vive Pro, then I have something seriously wrong with my computer or setup!

  • I run Aerofly in VR on a old i5 3gb GTX 970 4gb with an Pimax 4K : all setup at max (except shadows) and ss at 1.25 on Piplay , so run perfect with no strutter at all !

    Thank you for letting us know this information.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • One thing that I have discovered: Once you have used the Vive Pro, there is no going back to the original. The difference is fairly striking once you have been using the Pro for a few months, much more so than it seemed when I first went from the original to the Pro. I just hooked up the old one to see how they compare, and I was really stunned by the difference.

  • Ok, thanks! I get much better performance from the Rift than from the Vive, although not quite as good as you are getting!

    Strange as your computer specs are a little better than mine.


    If i remember correctly you get better performance with OpenGL, where as Vulkan+AA is better for myself.


    Still after 30+years using/upgrading a pc nothing surprises any more!


    Mick

  • I remember when you got the Vive pro Bill you said it wasn't better than Vive as you needed to dial down the SS. Now that the new high performance OpenGL is out does this make a difference? Is the Vive pro not now able to run at a decent SS?


    Your experience with Vive Pro is not encouraging for those hoping for the Pimax 8K to appear in the near future. That's the reason I'm watching news on the 1180 so closely. I might even have to investigate GPU cooling as I gather these new cards will turbo boost a fair bit if they can be kept cool enough.


    Zed - what's your view on Vive v. Vive Pro on FS2?


    Hey Phil, apologies - I don’t check here for messages that often.


    I used to run with the Vive on FS2 but got the Pro as soon as they came available. (I use a EVGA 1080 Ti SC overclocked a bit more. I think it’s another 10% but like most of the settings, it’s been a while and I can’t quote the precise values.) Both for me have been very smooth in FS2 but my systems are beefy. I fly P3D mostly for myself since I can do real-world weather and multiplayer in FS2, but for demoing what flight sims can be in VR, it’s FS2 at least at first for the best in class visuals.


    Because P3D is CPU limited in VR, when the 8086k's came out, I rebuilt my system around that for a sure thing 5 GHz and am running 4-way memory at 3.4 GHz. FS2 is always smooth that I’ve seen but it was smooth even before. No stutters. No pauses. I delidded and used liquid metal to the heat spreader and have water cooling with a Corsair H105. At 5 GHz under load, it barely cracks 60C.


    Visually the Pro beats the regular Vive hands down for readability of anything in the cockpit. The scenery pops. The gauges aren’t blurry, I see the fine millibar lines in the altimeter adjustment window, etc. It’s just a very immersive experience now. Like I said, regular Vive was great and smooth, but Pro is nuts. For me it was worth it completely and I would never go back.


    I don’t remember my SS value but with the new system I’m running max on just about everything. I think SS is 1.2 but don’t remember. Whatever it is, it looks great and performs great in FS2. I get lost in it.


    I know I went overboard by some standards, but I have a near pro-level system now and it runs like it. My experience probably doesn’t help much but a 4.5 GHz i7 with the Vive and even the Pro worked great in FS2. I had this new setup before the big Vulkan update so can’t comment on how much better it would have run. I had the new setup for flights with the Vulkan update so can’t really compare. The systems bookended the update.


    TLDR; big visual difference between Vive and Pro, fine performance with both, but overbuilt systems so may not mean much.


    Cheers!

    Is this with an Oculus or a Vive? If you are able to do this with a Vive Pro, then I have something seriously wrong with my computer or setup!


    Oldar, a few possible gotchas have to do with memory, hyperthreading, and cooling. I don’t know experience level so apologies if I shoot too low.


    Some system are built with slow memory, have the wrong number of sticks for the memory channels, or the memory isn’t clocked above stock even though it’s rated much higher. DDR4 is stock 2133 MHz and motherboards will generally clock it at that even though it can be rated above 4 GHz. Overclock generally has to be enabled to get the higher speeds. Other killers are only using one stick, or three with boards/CPUs that want 2 or 4.


    For hyperthreading it depends on the application but swapping threads on a core has overhead. If you have a thread that is maxing out a core, you probably don’t want some other thread swapping it out and porcing the hungry thread to pause. Depending on how many cores you have, it can be to advantage to turn hyperthreading off.


    The last one is cooling. Modern CPUs and GPUs will throttle if they get too hot. CPUs tend to lock in a throttle state and it takes a reboot to clear. GPUs will throttle if hot and speed back up when they cool. You can use applications like MSI Afterburner on Nvidia GPUs to monitor clock speeds but before I go fly I always set the GPU fans to max and then axit Afterburner to keep its polling from causing stutters.


    Other things that can impact performance are antivirus programs and "helpful" apps that get installed sometimes or come pre-installed on commercial bought systems. I don’t run anything that isn’t needed if I can help it.


    Hope that helps, but if not, good luck!

    In Steam I have SS set to 1.0 and only add more in other programs if I need it. The Pro generally doesn’t need much if any SS thanks to the extra resolution. I forget what it’s set to in FS2 but it won’t be more than 1.2.


    Graphics detail is maxed on all settings but one. I don’t remember which one and I’ll have to check later - Tstorms here now and late but I'll see about tomorrow eve. The one that isn’t ultra is something I thought would be mostly unimportant though. Shadow quality? I'll check.


    One thing about the Rift is they have space warp and thatdoes a great job of hiding missed frames. SteamVR has a couple of flavors of reprojection but doesn't hide performance issues as well. I’d bet you overall performance is very similar between the headsets but is better hidden by the Rift. Posted some things to check above.


    What are your full specs? Hardware, clocks, OS, etc?

    Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, MFG Crosswind pedals, 2 dof Motion, HTC Vive Pro

  • Maybe I am just very sensitive to "choppiness". I find that I can run at SS 1.3 and be satisfied. If I had never owned the Oculus and seen that I can run that at 2.0 I would probably never have thought I was "disadvantaged" :P.

    Hello,


    arithmetically, the load on Oculus Rift in Steam

    (native * 1.2x / 1.3x SteamVR -> [at 100%]) * 2.0 SS (at AFS2)

    less than Vive Pro

    (native * 1.4x SteamVR -> ([at 90%]) * 1.2 SS (at AFS2).

    The almost 14% extra power, which the Vive Pro needed in the information / setting of Oldar already fits and is plausible ...


    But even with this setting, the presentation in the Vive Pro with the higher native resolution and the lower SDE would have to be clearer and better than in the Rift.

    As a result, the instruments should also be easier to read ...

    That's what I do not understand right now, regardless of whether it's playable with 1.2 or 1.5 SS.



    Greeting André

    Sorry... Google-Translater

  • Yep, I remember:)

    I was around 15 when I started with a Commodore-64 and tape drive. I bought it primarily for the few flight simulators that were available (remember Solo Flight?). Then the Amiga-500, PC compatable 8086, 386...

    Then started building my own in the mid 90's.


    If only these young kids like my 13 yr old (the impatient generation) knew what we went through to have fun in the early days, at the dawn of the PC!


    Spending several longggg minutes waiting for a program to load from a tape drive, spending even longer typing in code from a computer software book or magazine and then debugging when you typed an incorrect line or two, lol.


    However, boy-oh-boy was it rewarding to have that game working properly and keeping us entertained for days/weeks, months! :)

    Redtail

    KFRG, KTEB, KEWR, KLGA

    ~Straighten up and fly right~


    DESKTOP: i7-7700k @5GHz (water cooled), Nvidia GTX 1080Ti FTW3, 32GB DDR4, 500GB SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, Windows 10 Home 64 bit,

    TM HOTAS Warthog (large spring removed), Saitek PRO Flight Combat Rudder Pedals, YOKO yoke!

    Laptop (gaming): Acer Predator Helios 500- Intel Core i7-8750H @4.1GHz, Nvidia GTX 1070, 32GB DDR4, 256GB SSD/1TB HDD.

    Gametrix JetSeat FSE (Flight Sim Edition)-USB Vibrating pad. Nextlevel V3 Motion Platform / Sim cockpit.

    Edited 2 times, last by Redtail ().

  • Spending several longggg minutes waiting for a program to load from a tape drive, spending even longer typing in code from a computer software book or magazine and then debugging when you typed an incorrect line or two, lol.


    However, boy-oh-boy was it rewarding to have that game working properly and keeping us entertained for days/weeks, months!

    How well I remember, sometimes up while 1 or 2 am with work the next day, then the elation when I found that full stop that should have been a comma, and the game finally worked. The long hours I spent learning Atari basic from a book and writing my own program, simple by today's standards but nevertheless cutting edge at the time.


    That would be around 1980, when I was 35 and I remember a work colleague saying "you bought a what, computer, you mean like an IBM you must have more money than sense, there not for ordinary people!"

    Pleased to say events proved him wrong.


    My own son is 45 and a computer engineer so I must have influenced him some.


    Mick

  • My desktop only does FS2 related things. My Windows Defender be

    Dang Redtail! How things have changed. Solo Flight on my C64 is what got me into flying when I was 10. Amiga 500 & Tandy 1000 it was that F-18 sim.


    I never could have imagined VR and Leap.


    Seriously, your post put me in the best mood, lol! Love thinking back to those beginning days!

  • Haha, yeah they were very expensive back then. That C-64 cost me around $200 which was a lot for a poor kid with just a summer job, lol. And that was one of the cheaper computers if I remember correctly.


    We share a similar history and it's great to hear about your son and the influence you obviously had on him. Same with me, my children were exposed to computers from birth, due to my hobby. My programming skills were limited to learning Basic and writing a few programs on the C64, however, my adult son who just turned 28, is a computer programmer and software developer for a small company in NJ where he lives.


    He started out as a PC gamer who had a burning desire to learn web design and coding. Taught himself much, then went to school and earned various certifications. I'm very proud of him. He never caught the aviation bug though (none of them have). :D

    Yes indeed!

    Solo flight, SubLogic/MSFS, the F-18 sim (think it was Fleet Defender), F-16 Combat pilot, Falcon, and all the other ones I could get my hands on! They lead me to my childhood dream of becoming a real pilot, which I did in the late 90's at Teterboro airport (KTEB) in NJ.


    I will forever be grateful to Bruce Artwick and all of the wonderful programmers (including the current ones) who gave me a platform to fulfill my passion!


    I never could have imagined VR and where we are now either.

    Thanks again IPACS for continuing the dream!

    Redtail

    KFRG, KTEB, KEWR, KLGA

    ~Straighten up and fly right~


    DESKTOP: i7-7700k @5GHz (water cooled), Nvidia GTX 1080Ti FTW3, 32GB DDR4, 500GB SSD, Oculus Rift CV1, Windows 10 Home 64 bit,

    TM HOTAS Warthog (large spring removed), Saitek PRO Flight Combat Rudder Pedals, YOKO yoke!

    Laptop (gaming): Acer Predator Helios 500- Intel Core i7-8750H @4.1GHz, Nvidia GTX 1070, 32GB DDR4, 256GB SSD/1TB HDD.

    Gametrix JetSeat FSE (Flight Sim Edition)-USB Vibrating pad. Nextlevel V3 Motion Platform / Sim cockpit.