How to adjust the freeware SIAI-Marchetti S-211 for Aerofly FS2?

Jetjockey10 · October 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM

Jan,

Would you give us some specifics of what can be adjusted to make the freeware S-211 more forgiving and easier to land. I find it highly unstable at touchdown and for a trainer it is not very friendly when the rubber meets the concrete.

Regards,

Ray

I fully realize that good piloting technique with approaches at the proper landing speed with minimal flare and very small vertical descent rate can result in a greaser but, any increase in flare or a slightly too fast touchdown speed can result is a serious bounce. This bounce is what I would like to soften.

Regards,

Ray

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · October 14, 2018 at 10:26 AM Official Post

The landing gear is very rigid. It's due to the way the gear hinges, there must be another another hinge in the real world landing gear which wasn't modeled in 3D and which I didn't add as a physical joint.

Basically the gear is super rigid because the axis of retraction is at an angle and it doesn't allow for any movement in the up/down direction. This means the wheel can't move up/down on touchdown, it just can only move forward and backward.... So it's extremely hard and doesn't actually dampen anything.

I had the same issue with the F104, if someone tells me where the gear actually pivots upon landing impact I'd be happy to add that in. Maybe the joint where the gear pivots for the gear retraction allows two degrees of freedom?

Jetjockey10 · October 14, 2018 at 3:44 PM

Thanks Jan,

I will see if I can dig up some details on the missing pivot. A civilian version is being promoted in the U.S. for those deep pocket guys looking for a private jet. Maybe they will be interested in explaining how the real world version works.

Regards,

Ray

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · October 14, 2018 at 5:03 PM Official Post

I drew in where I would expect there to be another axis... I've looked at images and couldn't really see it. Bu there has to be some form of axis, otherwise the damper is just pointless...

larrylynx · October 15, 2018 at 12:53 AM

Hi Jan

I agree with you, there should be a further hinge, after much research and many hours staring at photos I think I finally found them, they are pretty well hidden in all the photos, I found the swinging link one first and traced it across to where it should be on the main leg. Finally I saw the edge of bracket arm with what looked like a bolt head. This bracket seems to be attached to the keel frame and I assume a similar bracket is somewhere towards the rear bulkhead.

I will remodel the brackets and eventually send you a new model. Still working on the cockpit interior, what a pain having to model each nut, bolt, screw gauge, switch, needle, ejector seat etc etc etc......

Steve

Jetjockey10 · October 15, 2018 at 3:00 AM

Good. I assume the mains on the F-104G and S-211A are similar enough that if the stiff gear problem for one of them is solved then both AFS2 models will get the proper pivots and dampers for a safe and smooth landing. Looking forward to the fix. Thanks Jan and Steve and Indiafoxecho.

Regards,

Ray

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · October 15, 2018 at 7:40 AM Official Post

Quote from Jetjockey10

Good. I assume the mains on the F-104G and S-211A are similar enough that if the stiff gear problem for one of them is solved then both AFS2 models will get the proper pivots and dampers for a safe and smooth landing. Looking forward to the fix. Thanks Jan and Steve and Indiafoxecho.

Regards,

Ray

Hi Ray, they happen to have a similar retraction mechanism of the landing gear. But apart from that a lot of the gear is different....

I'll try to add that to both aircraft.

@Indiafoxtecho do you mind if I re-upload the S-211 to my personal web-page after I've made the changes to the landing gear? I would like to add it to the download section: https://www.aerofly-sim.de/download/download-aeroflyfs2

And I'll upload it to the forum's download section as well if you are ok with it. Will give you full credit of course.

larrylynx · October 15, 2018 at 11:08 AM

Hi Jan and Ray

Managed to obtain a copy of the F104 parts manual.

I believe the missing bracket for the main leg is item 90/91 (90 being the fuselage brackets and 91 has the lug for the pivot bolt). Its so well hidden in photos.

As for the drag link swivel bracket attachment, (item 89) can't see that pivot in the manual but it is visible in a photo I have in a book.

Maybe there is a parts manual for the s211 which may clear up any unseen bits

Steve

Jetjockey10 · October 15, 2018 at 11:17 AM

Steve,

Excellent research. The chances of finding an illustrated parts manual for the S-211A is problem very slim or none. I'm betting that Jan can add the missing pivot and adjust the pieces enough to add a little cushion to the touchdown. I think our best bet is to get one of the private S-211 owners in the U.S. to send us a close photo or two that shows what we are missing.

Regards,

Ray

Quote from Jet-Pack

I drew in where I would expect there to be another axis... I've looked at images and couldn't really see it. Bu there has to be some form of axis, otherwise the damper is just pointless...

Jan,

Here are closeups of the S-211 gear. See anything useful?

Regards,

Ray

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · October 15, 2018 at 8:51 PM Official Post

Ray, we need to look inside the gear bay to see this hinge.

I can just add it in without any visual parts, that is the benefit of having the physics and graphics separate. I don't need the actual part, though it would be nice to pick the actual axis and pivot from that part. But I can just add an invisible hinge, that is not a problem

The hinge I was looking for seems to be labeled as "2" in the second image (or 90/91 in the "A" view as you correctly mentioned!). I knew there was a missing axis, ha! found it!

Jetjockey10 · October 15, 2018 at 8:57 PM

Quote from Jet-Pack

Ray, we need to look inside the gear bay to see this hinge.

I can just add it in without any visual parts, that is the benefit of having the physics and graphics separate. I don't need the actual part, though it would be nice to pick the actual axis and pivot from that part. But I can just add an invisible hinge, that is not a problem

The hinge I was looking for seems to be labeled as "2" in the second image. I knew there was a missing axis, ha! found it!

Take the easy route if the results are the same. I seldom look inside the wheel wells in the flight sim anymore. Maybe when we have a walk around avatar it would make sense.

One day in the future the new developers will figure it out and the design can be updated at that time. Just make it land like the Lear and all is well.

While you are in there making changes, maybe you can check the brakes and see if they can be improved a little.

Regards,

Ray

larrylynx · October 15, 2018 at 10:47 PM

Hi Jan

Do remember that the photos I unloaded were for the F104 Starfighter

Steve

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · October 15, 2018 at 11:08 PM Official Post

Quote from larrylynx

Hi Jan

Do remember that the photos I unloaded were for the F104 Starfighter

Steve

Yes, I seem to have confused it a bit. But I expect there to be a similar joint in the landing gear of both planes. They both need that additional degree of freedom...

Indiafoxtecho · October 17, 2018 at 10:48 AM

Quote from Jet-Pack

Hi Ray, they happen to have a similar retraction mechanism of the landing gear. But apart from that a lot of the gear is different....

I'll try to add that to both aircraft.

@Indiafoxtecho do you mind if I re-upload the S-211 to my personal web-page after I've made the changes to the landing gear? I would like to add it to the download section: https://www.aerofly-sim.de/download/download-aeroflyfs2

And I'll upload it to the forum's download section as well if you are ok with it. Will give you full credit of course.

Hi Jan

I have no problems with re-uploading the files after the landing gear modifications - once they are done, I will also update my own link and archieve the modification in the change log.
Let me know if you need anything from my side.
Aside, once the gear is fixed, probably it should not take that long to convert the M-345 too.

Jetjockey10 · October 17, 2018 at 1:59 PM

Quote from Indiafoxtecho

Hi Jan

I have no problems with re-uploading the files after the landing gear modifications - once they are done, I will also update my own link and archieve the modification in the change log.
Let me know if you need anything from my side.
Aside, once the gear is fixed, probably it should not take that long to convert the M-345 too.

How complicated would it be to bring the T-45C to AFS2?

Regards,

Ray

Indiafoxtecho · October 18, 2018 at 1:24 AM

As for the T-45, not much more than bringing any other aicraft...I actually started doing the conversion more than one year ago, and dropped it for the reasons described elsewhere. It should reuse the MFDs and HUD from the stock Hornet anyway. I am not sure I am willing to convert it, as the source files were undergoing a major overhaul.

Jetjockey10 · October 18, 2018 at 2:03 AM

Understand. Thanks. I live in the flight pattern for the T-45C flying out of NAS Meridian.

Regards,

Ray

Jetjockey10 · November 2, 2018 at 4:50 PM

Jan,

Any chance of finding some time this weekend to modify the S-211 tmd? That stiff landing gear could use something to soften the touchdown?

Regards,

Ray

Jet-Pack (IPACS) · November 3, 2018 at 11:31 PM Official Post

I've posted a patch for the S-211 in the original thread: SIAI-Marchetti S-211 for Aerofly FS2

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