From P3D to FS2: Klemm Kl25

  • Hi,

    I have been putting the Bücker on hold for now. The 3D modelling is almost done, but one problem still needs to be solved. That is not exactly in my hands (nor in Jan's), so I decided to leave it as it is for the moment.

    I have been creating over the years several planes for FSX and P3D, most of them vintage planes. I wanted to try to convert one into FS2 for month now. Today I made the short decision and picked the Klemm 25. It is THE German sport plane of the 30s. A complete wooden design, simple as it can be. No flaps, no lights, no electrical system.

    It's not a big deal to convert the basic 3D model, which took me maybe 2 hours. The textures need still improvement, what is now grey will (should) get silver. But the tmd, that will still be an other story..

    Jet-Pack (IPACS)

    Jan, I have right away a problem with the tmd..

    When loading the plane it first "folds together" but looks fine after a second. But, the fps are pretty low. When I look in the tm.log, I see that the sim positions the plane all 0.1 seconds new, regardless if placing it on the ground or in the air. So far I have only the fuselage, wings and landing gear in the dynamic objects. Could you say already, out of the blue, what it could be?


    Best Regards,


  • Oh yes... 8- ) Do you know the one in Oberschleißheim? I still have some photos somewhere.... There it is!

    Wish for Aerofly FS 2:

    - Flightpath recording on hard drive and replay in sim from different view points

    - Smoke for aerobatic planes

    - Multiplayer or at least watching other people flying sitting on ground or inside tower

    • Official Post

    It appears that your joint connections are breaking, which forces a hard reset of the plane. If you decrease all k and d values of the connections it should get stable at some point, but then your aircraft might collapse on itself cause it is too weak.

    Another cause could be the collision hulls. If one of your parts causes a crash of the airplane upon contacting the ground it might also reset the plane in an infinite loop.

  • Thanks a lot, Jan. By decreasing the values I got it indeed working (and letting the wings fall off.. ).

    The tailskid got crazy, so there must be the problem. All other values are back to normal, only the one from the skid I can 't increase. I think, I have been messing something up with the R0 and X0, but I'll see tonight.


  • Hi Kai

    From my understanding

    R0 is the pivot point

    X0 is the inter-dimensional matrix required for the anti gravity portal to be opened or most likely just the 3D matrix for the x axis (exactly what the numbers refer to would be a guess...stat middle end, up down left right in out, shake it all about ? )

    TMD files are very frustrating but strangely addictive, mainly, this B'Stard is not going to beat me again, though most of the time it does, a simple fuel gauge is no problem, getting a fuel tank to work I cannot, the code says it should but it just reads zero :rolleyes:

    K and D values ???????


    • Official Post

    R0 is the pivot, yes.

    X0 is the x direction vector of the matrix

    x component of X0 is how much the axis is pointing along the x-axis of the aircraft, the longituginal axis, forward.

    y component of X0 is how much the local x-axis is pointing to the left,

    z component of X0 is how much the local x-axis is pointing up.

  • Hi Steve,

    Kp is the spring constant and Kd the damping constant. The higher the value, the more stiff the connection gets.

    I couldn't agree more with the tmd. Crazy enough; I used the lunch break to add the engine. It just worked on the first try. Without crashing the sim once. I was just sitting in front of the screen and wondering what went now wrong.. :/


  • Hi All

    Moment's of enlightenment for grasshopper.

    So if we define the 3D matrix for an object in the Controls.TMD file can I assume we just use a (0 1 0) for example in the regular TMD file axis as we have already set the axis matrix elsewhere. don't know what you are missing, better than any drugs this TMD stuff, I've been to many far off Galaxy's in pursuit of the illusive fuel tank

    Kai...your my hero..a TMD entry that didn't go wrong at first try

    • Official Post

    No, the controls has nothing to do with the physics.

    In the controls you only define the 3D clickspots, their dimensions, orientation, interaction direction, etc. This does not affect what you see on screen or how the aircraft behaves.

    In the physics section of the aircraft tmd file (DynamicObjects) you define only the orientation of the simulated masses but that doesn't affect what you see on screen. E.g. the the physical retraction of the landing gear or the rotation axis of the propeller would be defined here.

    In the graphics section (GraphicObjects) you only affect what you see on screen. You define the pivots and axes for all the switches and knobs, needles and some rotations like the aileron, rudder and elevator deflections. Physical rotations like the propeller or the landing gear don't need to be reproduced here, since that simulation is already done with the physics. So a landing in the tmd would not be animated in the graphics, it is simulated in the dynamics, with rigidbodies and joints, dampers, springs, etc.

  • Alright.. Anybody noticed that it is soon Christmas? Slowly it's getting stressful and there is less and less time for FS2.

    Anyway, After playing quite a bit with specular maps the whole thing looks a bit different. Still much room for improvement.

    I also added a few lines to the tmd. All following shots are from Vr, and yes, indeed from the first flight. I just pressed "p" twice for a shot

    Ups, that lifts off pretty fast..

    There she goes..

    ..and back on the ground.



  • Well, Ray, that might get a bit tough... Let me think. Friday in one week we leave for Christmas to Germany. So, 9 nightshifts left. A bit sleeping in between wouldn't be so bad as well. :/

    There are two instruments and a few small cockpit parts which I have still to model, but that's not a big deal. The sounds are done and the textures only need a bit more fine tuning. But all the animations need to be done and the aerodynamics are far from where they should be.

    I don't want to promise anything, but it sounds like a nice goal ;) :)


  • When I was in a position to set goals and evaluate results for my company, I found that the already busiest employees were the best ones to entrust a new project with an unrealistic deadline. Something about overworked people and outstanding results. hmmm.



  • Hi Felipe,

    Sorry to say, but I don't believe it will happen, at least not in any time soon. The Klemm was one of my early projects for P3D, only almost finished and never released.

    First, I'm meanwhile a fulltime developer, so there is basically no time for the freeware projects left. From time to time I work at the weekends on different projects (Carbon Cub, Bücker and also the Kl25), but they are all for Aerofly.

    Second, I don't even have P3D or FSX, plus the SDKs, installed anymore.

    Best Regards,