Carbon Cub

Below is a link to a Youtube video where I am testing short final with the Carbon Cub; even though the set down seems not too rough the sim seems to reset. Is this also due to propeller hit ground (even though it seems to be no contact)? Also, of some reason the throttle does not respond on startup at all (always 0%), what could be the cause of this?

Carbon Cub - Landing test (Aerofly FS4)

youtu.be

Suggest using the replay function (available when you pause) and moving the camera around to see if something other than the wheels contacted the ground. You could also change the "restart time after crash" under Miscellaneous settings so it takes longer or does not happen at all so you can inspect the aircraft after the crash. If the propeller hits the ground I thought it would fragment off or at least stop not be spinning? The -120FPM descent rate seemed low enough at touchdown that it should not have caused a crash event to be reported. I assume the gear was drop tested via setting the initial start position in the tmc file so you know your main and tail landing gear Kp and Kd values don't cause a reset. The 3D model is only a facade while the simulation engine is really using the tmd parameters for actual physics calculations including where parts contact spheres intersect with terrain, so just because the 3D model does not show contact does not mean the TMD model did not contact the ground. I don't know but maybe the tm.log might report something?

Also, I would ask Jet-Pack about what information can be on-screen display enabled during flight for developer debugging. There are some settings in the main.cfg that might allow you to specify what data you want to see via the Ctrl+F1 and Ctrl+F2 developer debug display commands. For instance, it would be very good to see engine rpm so you could tell if the engine was still running after the crash.

Developer debug related settings at the very bottom of the main.cfg file

        <[bool][debug_show_log][false]>
        <[bool][debug_show_fps][false]>
        <[settings_developer][developer_settings][]
            <[bool][Enabled][true]>
            <[string8][DeepDeveloperMode][]>
            <[string8][SpecialDeveloperMode][]>
            <[float64][TimeLapse][1]>
            <[float64][IntegrationDeltaTime][0.001]>
            <[bool][ShowMonitoring][false]>
            <[vector4_float32][MonitoringPosition][0.0020000000949949 0.0020000000949949 0.400000005960464 0.300000011920929]>
            <[bool][PauseInDebugView][true]>
        >

There are also developer cameras CTRL+F7 CTRL+F8 ?? if debug enabled in main.cfg

sdk:developer_camera [Aerofly FS Wiki]

Quote from jayeye2011

Also, I would ask Jet-Pack about what information can be on-screen display enabled during flight for developer debugging. There are some settings in the main.cfg that might allow you to specify what data you want to see via the Ctrl+F1 and Ctrl+F2 developer debug display commands. For instance, it would be very good to see engine rpm so you could tell if the engine was still running after the crash.

Code

Developer debug related settings at the very bottom of the main.cfg file

        <[bool][debug_show_log][false]>
        <[bool][debug_show_fps][false]>
        <[settings_developer][developer_settings][]
            <[bool][Enabled][true]>
            <[string8][DeepDeveloperMode][]>
            <[string8][SpecialDeveloperMode][]>
            <[float64][TimeLapse][1]>
            <[float64][IntegrationDeltaTime][0.001]>
            <[bool][ShowMonitoring][false]>
            <[vector4_float32][MonitoringPosition][0.0020000000949949 0.0020000000949949 0.400000005960464 0.300000011920929]>
            <[bool][PauseInDebugView][true]>
        >

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Thanks I need to check the dev settings, if I have them enabled. It would be very useful if you could display the rigidbodies during simulation and debugging, so it would be easier to see if there were any contact with ground. Also, the throttle is strange, it seems to be defined similarly to other aircraft but it does not react at all to control inputs.

Also, from what I can understand from glancing athe aircraft:tmd:instruments wiki airspeed indicator discussion

aircraft:tmd:instruments [Aerofly FS Wiki]

"The output is differentiated to get the airspeed trend and the airspeed and the airspeed trend are then send to external devices or the flight info bar via sender objects."

So if you include a sender for the throttle you should see your throttle position on the "I" key flight info bar, to see if you throttle command is changing.

            <[sender][SenderThrottlePosition][]
               <[string8][Input][ThrottleInput.Output]>
               <[string8][Message][Aircraft.Throttle]>
            >

It also may be that you have not defined all the tmd:engine2 parameters correctly so that maybe your engine is running but you cannot actually control it yet?

I suggest experimenting with Kaniewski's Club Special engine2 settings to see which parameters must be defined to have control of the engine rpm.

Quote from jayeye2011

It also may be that you have not defined all the tmd:engine2 parameters correctly so that maybe your engine is running but you cannot actually control it yet?

I suggest experimenting with Kaniewski's Club Special engine2 settings to see which parameters must be defined to have control of the engine rpm.

Yes the engine seems to be running, but I guess it could be some parameters that cause problems. Jet-Pack (IPACS) Do you have any ideas what could cause this? Now I have been able to touchdown multiple times without crashing, seemed at least some R0s related to propellerbody and joint where defined in such a way, which could cause ground contact. Slow progress, but at least some progress Seems to take time to get used to the tmd concepts.

Quote from jayeye2011

Also, from what I can understand from glancing athe aircraft:tmd:instruments wiki airspeed indicator discussion

https://www.aerofly.com/dokuwi…/aircraft:tmd:instruments

"The output is differentiated to get the airspeed trend and the airspeed and the airspeed trend are then send to external devices or the flight info bar via sender objects."

So if you include a sender for the throttle you should see your throttle position on the "I" key flight info bar, to see if you throttle command is changing.

Code

            <[sender][SenderThrottlePosition][]
               <[string8][Input][ThrottleInput.Output]>
               <[string8][Message][Aircraft.Throttle]>
            >

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I do have that sender defined in the tmd, and from that it is visible that throttle do not change at all.

Before takeoff or landing flight testing, I would focus on ground testing - being able to accelerate and slow down on the tarmac, being able to turn left and right on the tarmac, being able to brake to a stop. Currently, the only way to know your engine is running and under positive control is being able to speed up and slow down in response to throttle position. If you had an RPM instrument or engine sound setup then would also help. At the same time I would suggest getting your tailwheel, ailerons, flaps, elevator, and rudder graphics tied into the tmd file and tested on the ground before flying (both for correct deflection limits and direction sense and response speed). Regardless of the real world aircraft free castering or not steering system, please always implement either nosewheel or tailwheel steering since a lot of FS 4 users are not going to have differential braking rudder pedals controls. I would get the engine sound connected and create the RPM instrument frame animation setup in you cockpit panel as engine RPM is not available in the flight information bar display. Throttle position does not really correlate well to engine RPM like 50% throttle is not going to give you 50% of the max RPM.

Quote from jayeye2011

Before takeoff or landing flight testing, I would focus on ground testing - being able to accelerate and slow down on the tarmac, being able to turn left and right on the tarmac, being able to brake to a stop. Currently, the only way to know your engine is running and under positive control is being able to speed up and slow down in response to throttle position. If you had an RPM instrument or engine sound setup then would also help. At the same time I would suggest getting your tailwheel, ailerons, flaps, elevator, and rudder graphics tied into the tmd file and tested on the ground before flying (both for correct deflection limits and direction sense and response speed). Regardless of the real world aircraft free castering or not steering system, please always implement either nosewheel or tailwheel steering since a lot of FS 4 users are not going to have differential braking rudder pedals controls. I would get the engine sound connected and create the RPM instrument frame animation setup in you cockpit panel as engine RPM is not available in the flight information bar display. Throttle position does not really correlate well to engine RPM like 50% throttle is not going to give you 50% of the max RPM.

Yes my focus now is on getting the throttle and rpm control to work, and continue the work with the model on the ground. The interior is in progress and hopefully we can get some instruments hooked up to the simulation soon. The tail wheel is controllable using rudder right now, and the animation seems to move nicely in reponse to rudder control.

Went through and compared several tmds this weekend, but did not find any difference that would explain why the throttle input is working.

The engine parameters between the piper cub and carbon cub seem similarly defined, and also the throttle_lever / input. If starting the simulation in the air, the throttle is active (around 70%) but not possible to increase or decrease the value. Touchdown seem now improved after the propellerbody adjustments.

Jet-Pack (IPACS) What is the best way to determine if the engine is running at startup? When no cockpit instruments and sounds are connected in the tmd file yet?

Quote from Jet-Pack (IPACS)

My first guess is that the engine input cutoff is on, which disables the engine. This could be some cold and dark hack from the original aircraft.

What tmd element determines the cutoff? I used windiff to compare tmd files of pipercub and carboncub, but I do not spot any differences which would explain why the throttle does not increase / decrease. Rudder control works properly, and if starting in the air it shows 70-80% throttle.

Quote from Jet-Pack (IPACS)

Code

            <[engine2][Engine][]
                <[string8][InputThrottle]    [ThrottleLever.Output]>
                <[string8][InputMixture]     [ActualMixture.Output]>
                <[string8][InputLeftMagneto] [LeftMagneto.Output]>
                <[string8][InputRightMagneto][RightMagneto.Output]>
                <[string8][RotationSpeed]    [DriveShaft.RotationSpeed]>
                <[string8][AddTorque]        [DriveShaft.AddTorque]>
                <[string8][AddInertia]       [DriveShaft.AddInertia]>
                <[string8][InputAngle]       [PropellerJoint.Output]>
                <[float64][InputTemperature] [EngineHousing.Output]>
                <[float64][AddHeat]          [EngineHousing.AddHeat]>
                <[float64][RotationInertia][0.7]>
                <[float64][ThrottleIdle][0.24]>
                <[float64][Friction][180.0]>
                <[float64][RatedRotationSpeed][240.85]>
                <[float64][RatedPower][48470.0]>
                <[float64][Displacement][0.0028]>
            >

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Replace <[string8][InputMixture][ActualMixture.Output]> with <[string8][InputMixture][1.0]> and check if that fixes the issue

Tried with InputMixture 1.0, but still no luck. The engine2 definition is now as follows:

<[engine2][Engine][]
<[string8][InputThrottle]    [ThrottleLever.Output]>
<[string8][InputMixture]     [1.0]> //MixtureLever.Output
<[string8][InputLeftMagneto] [LeftMagneto.Output]>
<[string8][InputRightMagneto][RightMagneto.Output]>
<[string8][RotationSpeed]    [DriveShaft.RotationSpeed]>
<[string8][AddTorque]        [DriveShaft.AddTorque]>
<[string8][AddInertia]       [DriveShaft.AddInertia]>
<[string8][InputAngle]       [PropellerJoint.Output]>
<[float64][InputTemperature] [EngineHousing.Output]>
<[float64][AddHeat]          [EngineHousing.AddHeat]>
<[float64][RotationInertia][0.7]>
<[float64][ThrottleIdle][0.24]>
<[float64][Friction][180.0]>
<[float64][RatedRotationSpeed][240.85]>
<[float64][RatedPower][132389.77]>
<[float64][Displacement][0.00557]>
>

And for the throttle I have:

// throttle
<[input_lever][ThrottleInput][]
<[string8][Message][Controls.Throttle1]>
>
<[servoclassic][ThrottleLever][]
<[string8][Input][ThrottleInput.Output]>
<[float64][Speed][15.0]>
<[float64][P0][0.0]>
<[float64][P1][1.0]>
<[float64][Position][0.0]>
>
<[output_free][ThrottleLeverOutput][]
<[string8][Input][ThrottleLever.Output]>
>

I did a test by setting engine InputThrottle to a fixed value 1.0, and that seem to give full throttle, so something with the throttle control input.

Is it possible using the developer mode to see the different inputs and outputs in the tmd, as the infobar contains quite limited info for debugging?

Jet-Pack (IPACS) I finally got the throttle to respond by doing some debugging (manually setting the different inputs to a fixed value, to trace the entire chain). It seems the problem is in the input_lever definition, this code works correctly:

// throttle
<[input_lever][ThrottleInput][]
<[string8][Message][Controls.Throttle]>
<[string8][InputEnable][1.0]>
<[tmvector2d][Range][ 0.0 1.0 ]>
<[float64][Value][0.0]>
>

If I use Controls.Throttle1 (which the Aerofly FS2 to FS4 documentation suggests), the throttle does not work at all in this particular aircraft. What could be the reason for this?