Just read Helisimmer's interview with developer Torsten Hans about helicopter, and I am both happy and unhappy

1st Official Post

    The interview is here, very worth reading:

    https://www.helisimmer.com/interview/inte…er-tosten-hans/

    What interested me and surprised me most is when they talked about helicopter. Torsten said: "we already have the physics engine for helicopters for our R/C model simulator, so in theory we can upgrade this engine a little, which would allow us to simulate large helicopters. If the physics in the small scale are ‘right’, its not that much work to get it right for bigger helicopters. "

    I am so happy to read about that, but then I almost cried when I read his following words: "Its just that demand for helicopters is a lot lower compared to the other features that have been requested, so we are putting a lower priority on helicopters for now."

    Oh no! I have been reading every post in the Steam Aerofly forum, and there is so much demand for helicopters: http://steamcommunity.com/app/434030/dis…=1&q=helicopter

    I just can't understand why you should think helicopter is low on demand for AFS2. Everybody loves helicopter, but there are more reasons for us to ask for a helicopter for AFS2, because your most beautiful and realistic scenery is best suited for helicopter flying. It's the heli simmer's dream come true, and you are not seeing this... Oh no, oh no!

    Think of your magnificent New York DLC, think of your Switzerland DLC, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Innsbruck...can you find a better flight sim for a helicopter to fly in? You are not seeing the beauty of yourself, and you are wasting it. I feel heartbroken.

    Should I also add that you already have 18 air crafts covering major categories from civilian to military, from GA to Airliner, from propeller driven to jet, with helicopter as the only missing part? Please, please!

    Edited 3 times, last by frui (July 26, 2017 at 8:59 AM).

    I totally agree!! Have been waiting for a helicopter since december. Have a lot of fun in dcs however but the scenery in that sim is so ugly so please...............add a nice little helicopter to afs2 and a lot of (vr) people like me are very happy with your awesome sim.

    Cheers jozef

    I have been waiting every day for a helicopter for AFS2, but I keep saying this to myself: They are busy, they have a very small team, they might not be familiar with helicopter as it's totally different flight physics...those excuses make me calm down and be patient.

    Now you say it's not that much work, the flight model is already there, only the demand is low...now I just can't help but collapse.

    • Official Post

    Please also don't forget that the interview took place over a year ago. This was only shortly after the early access release of the Aerofly FS 2. Back then we didn't have New York or Switzerland if I remember correctly or even Innsbruck and Meigs Field or the HD version of the grand canyon. Now the possibilites for flying scenarios with helicopters have grown and the demand for helicopters has risen significantly as well. I let IPACS headquaters decide on how quickly they want the first heli in Aerofly FS 2. All I can say is that the R22 heli that has been previewed for quite some time is still flying in the Aerofly FS 2 and is fairly up to date with it's features. It's a matter shifting focussing on helicopter specific physics which will cost time and will most likely delay other things like ATC.

    • Official Post

    Well that is the thing about letting the users vote democratically... At the point where the decision was made to program ATC there have been about 5 requests about helicopter in total compared to maybe 100 for ATC. So IPACS listened to the users and started ATC. Now a lot more helicopters fans have raised their voices but I still think the ATC are ahead in terms of numbers, so to say. Personally I totally agree, we need helicopters more than we need ATC right now....

    Quote from frui

    Think of your magnificent New York DLC, think of your Switzerland DLC, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Innsbruck...can you find a better flight sim for a helicopter to fly in? You are not seeing the beauty of yourself, and you are wasting it. I feel heartbroken

    You make it sound as if it is impossible to enjoy the scenery when flying a regular plane... ;) which isn't the case, of course. Most simmers (by far) fly planes instead of heli's. I myself never ever fly heli's and still enjoy the scenery. If I wanted to enjoy the scenery up close and slow I might even prefer a trike over an heli. ;)

    BTW If you'd asked me what I'd prefer, a heli or ATC, I'd say... WEATHER! LOL Imho a full blown weather system would totally transform this sim. So as you see, it is all very subjective and personal.

    I totally agree that the regular plane is more important than the helicopter.

    But we already have 18 fixed wing aircrafts, but not a single rotorcraft in AFS2. That makes too much unbalance for aircraft lineup.

    Yes you can enjoy the scenery with the regular plane, but for such a great scenery as the NYC DLC, which is almost an exact replica of the real city, a helicopter makes a big difference. In real life you can't do a guided tour of NYC in a fixed wing aircraft, hovering over each landmarks. The ultra realism of NYC DLC is actually an overkill for fixed wing aircraft.

    I also agree ATC is more important than the helicopter, but the developers have clearly stated about the difficulty of doing ATC, so it will still be along way ahead. But from Torsten's word, the helicopter is easy to do. It's sort of already there, but they just think it's very low on demand.

    Please consider this: If ATC will take a year to develop, and a helicopter will only take a month, are you willing to see the helicopter going first?

    Quote from J van E

    You make it sound as if it is impossible to enjoy the scenery when flying a regular plane... ;) which isn't the case, of course. Most simmers (by far) fly planes instead of heli's. I myself never ever fly heli's and still enjoy the scenery. If I wanted to enjoy the scenery up close and slow I might even prefer a trike over an heli. ;)

    BTW If you'd asked me what I'd prefer, a heli or ATC, I'd say... WEATHER! LOL Imho a full blown weather system would totally transform this sim. So as you see, it is all very subjective and personal.

    Edited 2 times, last by frui (July 26, 2017 at 3:06 PM).

    I undestand the guys at IPACS are very limited in resources to do several things at the same time. I think it would be a good idea if they update its priority list for AFFS2 using a new poll between the community members, to include developments like helicopters, ATC, weather, AI Traffic, Autogen, Aircraft Operations (start-up, etc), etc., etc...

    Just a suggestion.

    Cheers, Ed

    As much as I love the helicopter, I respect other people's priority, which is basically not much different from mine. If the helicopter should take as much time to develop as ATC, I will vote for ATC myself. But if ATC will take a year, while helicopter will only take a month, I think it will be a clever strategy for IPACS to develop the helicopter first, because it can ease our anxiety and impatience waiting for the bigger things.

    Previously I had no complaint about the lack of helicopter, but when I saw Torsten's words about how easy it is to do the helicopter, I sort of lost control...

    Quote from Jay 737

    I have to join in..

    Yes Yes. Please Very Much!!

    Well performing Heli is firmly stuck on top of my wishlist for months. Right above force feedback support:)

    Yeah, we all have different priorities, don't we? :p

    I'd love to see helicopters in AFS2, I think it would really allow the detail and design of the environments to shine. It would take a while to do properly though, even though they might be part way there with the physics. The bar has been set very high between DCS and X-Plane 11, so they would need to do a proper job, which they undoubtedly would do.

    It wouldn't be a direct choice between ATC or helicopters, as those tasks would mostly be done by different personnel, but overall in terms of resources and manpower, IPACS will need to get the best return for the investment of time.

    I'm sure helicopters are on the to do list, and to those guys that aren't keen on them, give it a try - it's the most engaging flying experience there is IMO, you really 'wear' the aircraft and constantly have to interact with the controls, but there can come a point where it feels like you are controlling it with your mind, it's like surfing on air.

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    Quote from edpatino

    I think it would be a good idea if they update its priority list for AFFS2 using a new poll between the community members, to include developments like helicopters, ATC, weather, AI Traffic, Autogen, Aircraft Operations (start-up, etc), etc., etc...

    I doubt that will work. You can expect IPACS to drop working on for instance ATC to start working on a heli. Or weather. Switching between various tasks always result in loss of time: you will have to dig into new things and later on you will have to figure out where you were when you stopped working on that other project. I think it is best if IPACS is focusing on whatever they are focusing on now.

    Obviously this doesn't necessarily mean that one of the guys can't start working on a heli, now the Dash done, while the others continue working on ATC. Byt updating a priority list on the go doesn't sound wise to me.

    That's also what I am thinking. They must have someone who has been focusing on developing the aircraft. Now that Q400 is done, he can shift to the next aircraft, and what next can be better than a helicopter? It would also be much easier to make than Q400.

    And for the start we don't need much realism for the physics. I don't think most AFS2 users care much about helicopter physics either, because we are relatively casual players, or experienced player who want an easier way to play flight sim. The more realism of the helicopter, the harder to control it, which is contrary to the user targeting of AFS2.

    I used to fly the default R22 of FSX a lot. It's said to be joke, very unrealistic, but I was having a lot of fun. The charm of a heli is simply irreplaceable, even if it's unrealistic.

    Quote from J van E

    I doubt that will work. You can expect IPACS to drop working on for instance ATC to start working on a heli. Or weather. Switching between various tasks always result in loss of time: you will have to dig into new things and later on you will have to figure out where you were when you stopped working on that other project. I think it is best if IPACS is focusing on whatever they are focusing on now.

    Obviously this doesn't necessarily mean that one of the guys can't start working on a heli, now the Dash done, while the others continue working on ATC. Byt updating a priority list on the go doesn't sound wise to me.

    Edited once, last by frui (July 27, 2017 at 8:50 AM).

    • Official Post

    Hi,

    The Q400 had the new engines that required more work on the physics side, helicopters require even more work. The thing is physics simulation have to be done by the headquaters at IPACS because that is core simulation stuff and that requires at least one of the two main programmers to stop their work and focus on helicopter physics, e.g. transitional lift, vortex ring state, etc. The wash of the rotor on a helicopters does a lot more because it's directly aimed at the ground, aircraft prop wash is tangential to the ground most of the times, so we could neglect some ground interaction there...

    So it may be faster to create another aircraft instead of a helicopter because we could do that without much interaction with headquaters. As with 3rd party developers Andreas and I can create aircraft on our own by now, apart from different physics like helicopters are.

    Thanks Jan for the explanation. In fact previously I was thinking the same as you, so I was patient. It was Torsten's following words that lifted my anticipation: "we already have the physics engine for helicopters for our R/C model simulator, so in theory we can upgrade this engine a little, which would allow us to simulate large helicopters. If the physics in the small scale are ‘right’, its not that much work to get it right for bigger helicopters. "

    So could you just use the physics engine of your R/C model helicopter if it would not be too much work? I want the helicopter so badly that I'd happily play a R/C model in your splendid scenery. Maybe you can improve the physics later because everything is just early access?

    Quote from Jet-Pack

    Hi,

    The Q400 had the new engines that required more work on the physics side, helicopters require even more work. The thing is physics simulation have to be done by the headquaters at IPACS because that is core simulation stuff and that requires at least one of the two main programmers to stop their work and focus on helicopter physics, e.g. transitional lift, vortex ring state, etc. The wash of the rotor on a helicopters does a lot more because it's directly aimed at the ground, aircraft prop wash is tangential to the ground most of the times, so we could neglect some ground interaction there...

    So it may be faster to create another aircraft instead of a helicopter because we could do that without much interaction with headquaters. As with 3rd party developers Andreas and I can create aircraft on our own by now, apart from different physics like helicopters are.