Posts by Zed

    compared to the Aerosoft Sim Conferences we could see much more motion plattform and cockpits. What I was interested would have been a 360 degree 3 axis simulator plattform. Sadly there was none. I have seen videos of such simulators, well... maybe next time.

    It's good to see much motion interest, though. Combined with VR, it’s a really amazing experience. And it’s not out of reach to the rest of us if you are even mildly handy with tools and a soldering iron. Xsimulator.net is one source for software and help for anyone interested.

    There’s at least a couple of really nice 6 dof bases out now. MotionSystems.eu has a really nice looking base but it was 13,800€ last price I saw. I bet Higgy is in the ballpark saying above 10,000 €/$.


    They aren’t that hard to build yourself though - especially if you go for the worm gear / arm style Brunner and Motion Systems are using. Costing should easily be below half what the companies are getting even if you have a commercial shop cut and weld all the framing. Some build the framing out of wood. The trick is sourcing all the right parts first time and not wasting money. There are various designs at XSimulator.net that people have worked out but some are way overkill on the motors and need their own power circuits to feed them. I’m really itching to build a 6 dof rig for VR and use a battery for main power surge requirements when running and recharge it between sessions. That can keep running power requirements manageable.


    The 6 dof bases like Brunner's really look nice though and should last a good long while even under heavy use. VR gives you a full cockpit surround so the top platform doesn’t need to be heavy with a cockpit mock up or shell. I bet we see more 6 dof bases hit the market and prices come down some. Still expensive, though.

    I bet that’s temporary, Oldar. Time will tell. Hope it is. It sounds like inefficiencies in the added scenery rendering. Bet it is something simple. I don’t get any stuttering but I’m not using the cultivated stuff - so far just the ORBX scenery. For me, the view in the Pro in FS2 is just amazing.

    Saltgrass, HTC lets you buy the $300 kit of two base stations and two wands if you order it at the same time as the Pro headset. I dont think it’s available anywhere else, though.


    (Edit: Just web search for HTC $300 Vive Pro bundle. I had links but remembered those get posts deleted here so took them back out.)


    HTC responded to that and fixed it. It’s no longer the cheapest solution to just buy a regular Vive kit to be able to use the Pro for those switching to the Pro from WMR or Rift headsets. That price hasn’t changed though. The full kit is still $500. It’s just that if you buy the $300 bundle you get just what you need for $200 less.


    Since I already had a Vive, I could just get the Pro itself. That was the intent of the Pro headset alone (and sidestepping the later release of the 2.0 base stations). But it seems the demand for the Pro was higher than anticipated (sold out now until next bulk shipments hit) and people who didn’t already have a Viv wanted them too. Hence the $300 bundle.

    It certainly could especially if a light fixture or ceiling fan blocks or partially blocks the view from one to the other since they synchronize optically. If that’s the case you can run that sync cable they came with and they don’t need to see each other at all. Or move one or the other so they can see each other. But having one directly in front of you is also fine and will make sure the headset always sees tracking sweeps.

    ...Other than that, the pricing seems a little strange in that you can purchase the Original Vive kit (with first generation controllers and base stations) and the Vive Pro for the same price as purchasing the Vive Pro and the improved controllers/Base Stations.


    Too bad the Vive Pro did not come out originally with a kit price instead of a per unit price....

    Hey Saltgrass, we don’t have a price yet on the Lighthouse 2.0 base stations or wands. Those aren’t available yet. The base stations and wands kit is $300 but it’s 1.0 base stations and wands. HTC created that kit for those wanting the Pro but that don’t have the original Vive. The regular Vive full kit is $500. The reason HTC gave for selling only the headset now is that it was to be an upgrade for those that wanted it and the 2.0 base stations aren’t available yet. Valve is making those.

    Hi Oldar, I’ve done both. My base stations are in the corners of my room and my desk is along one wall. I’ve been set up at my desk where one is behind me and to the right and the other is just to my left, and where I face one base station with the other behind me and not really seeing the headset until I turn to one side or the other. Performance and tracking has been fine both ways and when standing in the room doing room scale or just sitting in my office chair. Kind of unremarkable all the way around.


    I haven’t tried facing the empty corners routinely, though. I do at times when I get out of the cockpit to check out the aircraft and am looking around. I’m sometimes at the very corners of my room when I do that since the airplane cockpit area does a good job of filling my room. I can lose tracking if my shelving blocks one base station and I’m down to one and turn just right. I can’t get far enough out in the othe corner to do that since a file cabinet is in the way.


    I don’t know if I’ve answered what you’re looking for though.

    Just my $0.02 on some points... As VR headsets and computing hardware improves, and techniques such as light fields gain traction, VR is allowing the most immersive experiences in flight simulation than ever before. I’ve "flown" stationary military F-16 sims with a hemispherical projection display and VR beats it.


    One guy I fly multiplayer with in a different sim is developing VR training for the Air Force to help get students up to speed faster and at lower cost. Over on the FlyInside boards there have been real pilots (transport/private) who get very expressive about how VR puts them back in the cockpit after retirement or lost medicals. At least one CFI said it makes a huge difference for his students and especially those who have difficulty turning the 2D projections of monitor flight simulation into a 3D mental image for practicing flying patterns and approaches. He said it was like night and day. The students would get frustrated trying to fly a monito but would just "get it" in VR and be completely able to know their position in space intuitively just as if they were in a real airplane.


    I freely admit to being a VR evangelical for flight simulation. Everything is full-size, full and natural 3D, and looks like a very close approximation, with a few warts, of real life. Flying formation on a monitor looks cool, but only goes so far. Doing it in VR gets scary the closer you get and any movements that close the gap unexpectedly trigger very real world reactions. So upshot is VR is in my opinion most definitely the future of flight simulation. The only questions for me are how simulator cockpits will be integrated. The Vive Pro has stereo cameras that we're hoping will allow green screening / chroma keying so you can have the VR view out the windows and real world views in the cockpit. That would allow the ultimate in flight simulation in training environments. I’m only aware of one simulator company that still hasn’t committed to supporting VR and I’d bet it is cutting into their sales. I know I won’t even consider it until it does VR. I really think VR is the future of flight simulation. Visuals are just too integral to the experience of flight for it to not be.


    About Aerofly FS2, it’s simply the best looking sim in VR that I’ve found so far. It’s missing multiplayer, weather, and some other features that more mature sims have, but for the visceral feeling of flight and the best visual cues in VR, it is far and away the leader. I think it’s the graphics engine they use. It has a slightly different look from the other main sims and is able to do a better job rendering. I’m sure there are trade offs, but Aerofly just looks good. In the Pro I can read the little millibar wheels in the altimeters right from the dial. I can read the placards and labels. It all adds to the experience over just seeing blurs. Looking down at an airport from above triggers the same sensations I get in a real airplane.


    Definitely agree that people pinch pennies when buying a sim and then go spend hundreds to thousands on scenery and aircraft. The market itself has shaped a lot of that and some janky sims at the low end pull customers and interest from the higher end. Don’t know the answer as it’s just a market, but like anything like this, if we don’t support a sim or market, it can easily be lost.


    Said a lot without saying much but hope that helps in some way.

    Nice positive. I can see the screen door in my big screen TV and even on my monitor if I look for it. Doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of shows, movies, or the very few games (1?) that I still play on a monitor. It’s whatever floats your boat, and obviously not everyone likes VR, but VR is what put me back in the virtual cockpit after giving it up after many years and it’s still a huge thrill. Just yesterday I did a 10 hour flight in a Connie in the Pro from SFO to PHNL with a bunch of guys. I’d get up out of the captain's seat and go check on the engineer's station, the view from the copilot's seat, and even look outside to see the view of the wings, fuse, and tail as the clouds went by. All full size. All a very realistic view that I’d never get to do in real life.

    Zed, did you pre-order yours? I did and haven't heard a thing from HTC about shipping yet.

    I did but from Amazon. They then upgraded to release day shipping so that it would arrive on the release day. HTC was shipping some to also arrive on release day but that may depend on where you live and such.


    HTC has been hit and miss on this - again. Some got order confirmations, some didn’t. Some got shipping confirmations and apparently some didn’t. It looks like they are shipping via FedEx. If you sign up with FedEx, you may get a shipping notice from them. I think you can also look for all packages destined for your address.


    When did you order? HTC apparently sold out fairly quickly but should have new stock soon I would guess.

    Are there any affordable (say within the Saitek-range) helicopter controls available? The ones I know start at 600 $ which is a bit steep for a casual chopper flyer. I know there are numerous do-it-yourself solutions on YouTube but that's not what I would be looking for. And of course it should work with AeroflyFS2.


    At present, I use a Saitek Quadrant for Collective, the Saitek Cessna Pedals (pretty poor for that purpose) and a TM16000.


    I doubt there is, but just in case, thanks a lot, Michael

    Hey Michael, it's actually pretty easy to build your own stuff if you are even mildly talented with basic tools. The electronics are now trivial. It's a do it yourself solution but you can download canned firmware (web search Instructables for ARDUINO LEONARDO/MICRO AS GAME CONTROLLER/JOYSTICK - and that's just one source. I'd post the link but those get deleted here.) and wire up potentiometers or hall sensors, buttons, etc, and go to town.


    The biggest hurdle is usually just starting. After that and as you gain experience, it gets easy.


    You can really cut into the costs by doing it yourself and have the controls you want, exactly as you want. I know this might not be what you are looking for, but it's really not as hard as it first looks.

    Why allways so negative? If one wants to see the screen door effect one sees it. I have a rift since last christmas and i haven't flown once on the monitor since then. I still find it absolutely great.

    I probably overemphasized the screen door too. It is there and you can see it if you look for it, but just as in the regular Vive where you would look past it and focus on the experience, that's even easier now with the Pro.


    I can also look for pixel artifacts on my monitor and see them if I look for them. It doesn't mean that I focus on them or see them when I'm not looking for them.


    All I can really say is higher resolution really plays well in Aerofly. VR was great in it before. Now it's just amazing. I would never go back to flat screen gaming.


    One other bit is I think Aerofly's menus in VR are fixed size. Now in VR on the Pro they are noticeably smaller. It's not an issue but you do notice it.

    Why pay so much. The Odyssey has the same resolution but half the price.

    It has the same resolution and probably even the same panels, and I almost got one myself, but I kept seeing people comment that the tracking was laggy and there were glitches, and then the obvious one of if its cameras can't see the controllers, they drop out. People also are commenting about the comfort. Can't pull anything back behind you if that's the case and it can affect a number of scenarios.


    The Pro has so many changes that it's basically a new headset that still has the dimples on it. HTC upped their game on comfort big time. Balance is excellent. It has audio controls on the earphones. Tracking is excellent. I also do more than just flight sims. I hear that Odyssey is really pretty good for flying and driving since in general you aren't using controllers. But that puts it in a fairly narrow application since it's workable but apparently not stellar in other applications.


    I'm not bashing the Odyssey. It's a well-priced headset with tracked controllers. It's also $500 which is just $300 away from the Pro for me since I already have Lighthouses and controllers. Obviously, those without that stuff would have to spend more to get the Pro, but for me, it was a simple decision.

    I got my Pro yesterday and no setup, no adjustments, with FlyInside. It just worked. And man is it beautiful! While there is still screen door, is very fine and you look right past it. I was looking for flaws specifically and focusing on the displays, but as soon as I was into the sim, it goes away. Beyond that, you can read all the small text in the gauges, see the texture on the instrument panels, and everything looks that much more real. Performance is great too. I had one core running 100% and my GPU (1080Ti) was also cranking up to 100%, but Aerofly was still smooth. It’s really something to see and something I’m going to put pilots and non-pilots in to show them VR. It’s really beautiful. Highly recommended!

    I don’t know about multiscreen support but wouldn’t be surprised if it can be done.


    But multiplayer isn’t possible at this time. We don’t know when or if you will be able to share cockpits or fly with others and see their planes.

    We all have our favorite features we're wanting, but VR hands was pretty low on my own list. For me the highest priority is multiplayer. If that was there, I can forget AI or ATC or weather. Back to P3D and DCS for me.

    Nvidia has a history as long as VR of having all too frequent driver releases that cause all sorts of issues for people in VR. My experience has been to get a good driver and stick with it until there’s a good reason to upgrade or a significant performance or feature release, and then only upgrade after reports are all-clear for issues. Most of their releases are just tweaks for new games anyway and generally are of no consequence except for introducing stutters and such in VR that then get fixed in another release.