One wonders if this could be used to populate scenery.....

  • Devons rig

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  • Yes, please... having all those buildings as grey objects would be nice already because right now I seldom have the idea I am flying over cities due to the lack of 3D buildings. It is a shame that quite often I can't even see I am getting close to a city because of this. And when I am near or over a city I have no clue what kind of city or neighbourhood it is because everything is flat and you get a totally wrong impression of it all. This still is my biggest problem with Aerofly FS 2.

  • Yes, please... having all those buildings as grey objects would be nice already because right now I seldom have the idea I am flying over cities due to the lack of 3D buildings. It is a shame that quite often I can't even see I am getting close to a city because of this. And when I am near or over a city I have no clue what kind of city or neighbourhood it is because everything is flat and you get a totally wrong impression of it all. This still is my biggest problem with Aerofly FS 2.

    Well gray might even be acceptable as a temporary measure, but what I was actually thinking was that it might be possible to come up with a program to automatically scale and assign textured facades to the shapes. I've seen programs that do something similar, and even though the facades wouldn't be authentic to the actual buildings, in most instances that's already the case anyway.

    Just a random thought.

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  • The problem as you know might be the performance hit that comes with this solution. Look at NYC, that could have been much more populated than it currently is but the building count had to be reduced to fit into the performance model of FS 2. Now, something like this could possibly be done in groups, that might be meet performance vs. population.

    Also, I see these particular models as ugly, but that's just my own personal opinion talking :)

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

  • The problem as you know might be the performance hit that comes with this solution. Look at NYC, that could have been much more populated than it currently is but the building count had to be reduced to fit into the performance model of FS 2. Now, something like this could possibly be done in groups, that might be meet performance vs. population.

    Also, I see these particular models as ugly, but that's just my own personal opinion talking :)

    This goes back to something I asked before about LOD's, as it's pretty obvious that AF draws buildings out to a pretty enormous distance, which yes would obviously affect performance if it was all filled with buildings. But does (or can) AF not use traditional scenery LOD to keep the number of buildings on screen at any one time manageable?

    Edit: Hmmmm.... and I just found out X-Plane has started incorporating this, so apparently it's at least technically possible.

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  • Edit: Hmmmm.... and I just found out X-Plane has started incorporating this, so apparently it's at least technically possible.


    Hm, interesting... does this mean default XP11 will show all these buildings somehow...?

  • Hm, interesting... does this mean default XP11 will show all these buildings somehow...?

    I had started a conversation about this with Tonywob, and he said his W2XP "mostly already supports" OSM3D tagging, and that the new autogen in X-plane 11 had begun using it as well. I suspect he means mostly height tags though, and not necessarily shape.

    Still, the tech has appeared in X-plane previously, and I was thinking AF could do even better. On the other hand, perhaps the devs have something completely different in mind.

    This shows how it could work, though. (However the facades shown here are mostly very bland, probably due to memory constraints at the time?)

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  • That's why autogen was created, with vegetations and buildings optimized to be extremely light weight for the graphical engine.

    Routines were developped to place and shape autogen buildings based on databases like OSM for instance, or purchased cadastral databases. The same for vegetation databases. This allows very accurate placement with lots of variation in buildings and vegetation accurate to the real place.
    Where autogen buildings are too limited (city centers), procedural 3D allows to create the real building shapes based on cadastral databases. Landmark buildings are then manually modelled, still keeping frame rate in mind.

    This way you can compile sceneries with millions of houses and trees, powerline masts, public lights, landmarks, water towers, etc. that bring the real life volume that's still desperately lacking to AeroflyFS with a very reasonable cost on graphical engine. FSX is very limited by its 32 bit architecture, but AeroflyFS 2 would sure become brilliant if only...

    Well scenery making is not just placing a photo carpet on a mesh... a few city centers, a few aerodromes and radomly spread ugly trees overall.

    Cheers
    Antoine

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  • That's why autogen was created, with vegetations and buildings optimized to be extremely light weight for the graphical engine.

    Routines were developped to place and shape autogen buildings based on databases like OSM for instance, or purchased cadastral databases. The same for vegetation databases. This allows very accurate placement with lots of variation in buildings and vegetation accurate to the real place.
    Where autogen buildings are too limited (city centers), procedural 3D allows to create the real building shapes based on cadastral databases. Landmark buildings are then manually modelled, still keeping frame rate in mind.

    This way you can compile sceneries with millions of houses and trees, powerline masts, public lights, landmarks, water towers, etc. that bring the real life volume that's still desperately lacking to AeroflyFS with a very reasonable cost on graphical engine. FSX is very limited by its 32 bit architecture, but AeroflyFS 2 would sure become brilliant if only...

    Well scenery making is not just placing a photo carpet on a mesh... a few city centers, a few aerodromes and radomly spread ugly trees overall.

    Cheers
    Antoine

    Good point. Development for FS 2 is still in it's infancy stages when compared to any other flight simulator ever created so it will get there over time. Crawl, walk, run :)

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff