How to Navigation with v2 ?

  • As there is no manual, can anyone explain, how the navigation works ?

    If I set a landing airport under "navigation", I don´t find a way to navigate towards it. Should the two RMI needles work ?
    If yes, where are they pointing to ? I don´t see a working DME either.

  • I did hope, that the RMIs and HSI in the 737 work. Allthough they move and turn somehow, they can´t be used for navigation. You are right, the info bar is the only way at the moment. This needs a fix urgently !

    I use FS for the VFR planes and bought v2 for airliners. But without at least a basic navigation ( one RMI to the field, together with a DME, and the ILS ) it is kind of pointless :(

  • At the moment the navigation feature is very limited. The hope for the future is that the navigation pages allows you to select waypoints and generate a PLog. It would be great if all VORs, NDBs, intersections and airways were marked on the chart as waypoints and even better if there was a way of adding your own waypoints and working out was radial of a vor they lie on and what dme so we can fly proper IFR. I hope to see a feature in the future that will allow us to select and change both nav 1, nav 2 and ADF freqs, preferably by manually entering them rather than just selecting them from a list.

    At the moment I fly without the info bar. I choose a destination airfield in navigation and then take off and switch to HUD view which shows your project track. I then set manually the autopilot to follow this track and keeping following this track until of finals with landing flap set, gear down and I then turn off autopilot to land.

    If I am flying a simple prop or vintage aircraft then I use the HUD view to get the aircraft on the projected track and then simply note the heading, switch back to cockpit view and maintain this heading for the remainder of the flight, switching to HUD every so often to check my cross-track error. I don't use autopilot when flying the C172, Corsair, P-38 etc to increase the realism. Personally I think autopilot should be disabled for all aircraft that doesn't have it real life. The autopilot should be tailored for those like the Baron which can purely maintain heading and altitude, removing the speed and VS functions. Anyway that is probably quite far off topic.

    Gary

  • Hi Judorn, IPACS promise VOR and proper ILS navigation but it will be delivered to mobile users at a time of their choosing which means really whenever they have progressed with a similar stage on their full size PC/Mac development of Aerofly 2. They seem to release interim mobile versions which will not actually crash the computer but which are still very raw and seemingly not really extensively tested by people with aviation experience. You can therefore be a virtual Chuck Yeager, Winkle Brown or Hanna Reitsch test pilot and chase some more of the Aerofly 2 demons that live out in the thin air for IPACS's benefit. Aerofly 2 at the moment is work in progress, your forum contributions can help make the next update that much nearer to perfection or can help dampen down some of the more unfortunate IPACS diversions (such as previous, now partially cured, bug ridden incessant unsolicited loud fanfared achievement awards which had graced the beloved mobile Aerofly FS).
    There is some relief for nav savy pilots around the Salinas and Montery area. If you look up published approaches (SkyVector.com is magnificent) you can try Salinas, Montery, Marina and Watsonville with ILS, LOC, ADF and limited VOR and (salinas) DME. The Baron has working ILS, ADF, DME and VOR but you have to workaround a fixed OBS set at 090 (but that gives information from 080 to 100 and with reverse indications the reciprocal headings). Other planes give varying degrees of nav aid ability. The NDB frequency in use is also shown in the King Air, Lear Jet and the 747 (FMC display) but not in the 737 or Airbus. Their ADFs work on the RMI or HSI instruments, the VOR is inactive. The ILS only comes alive 3 miles out but a fix is to fly the intended ILS runway outbound first (eg off 13 if going in on 31) and the ILS might remain awake further out, the Salinas 31 approach works in this manner and has a locator/NDB working on 12 miles finals.
    Aerofly is almost fun with all these developments! :) It beats all the other sims hands down.

    Edited 2 times, last by Overloaded: Cut n paste X grammar (April 7, 2015 at 1:19 AM).

  • Sorry to hear that, it worked very well for me, ? A device issue, I'm using a mini retina.
    If you fly off 13 the ILS will be awake for runway 31. The 22 nm dme arc 31 ILS proceedure works really well especially with bad vis or in twilight. The dme in the baron works even if the top display switches airport. The high ground is sweet! The Chualar 263 frequency ndb qdm 262 degrees (12 miles) is where the 22nm dme arc starts.. The VOR doesn't cover the appropriate radial because it is outside 080-100 (inbound 260-280).
    It wouldn't be the wrong ILS frequency in use due to auto Aerofly ILS selection?

  • Overloaded, thanks for the advice. I flew my first proper ifr night flight with minimal vis. I flew from castle airport to salinas in the baron but did not use the salinas approach chart (maybe next time). Instead I took off from castle and headed 200deg until I intercepted the salinas VOR 27 radial on nav 2 and then flew that radial until overhead the airport. I then flew a course towards the NDB on finals runway 31 dme 12nm (freq 263) using the RMI (is it me or does the VOR needle not work correctly on the RMI). As soon as I passed over head the NDB at 3000ft, I turned on the runway heading and intercepted the localiser. I then intercepted the glide slope and managed to maintain a good descent along the runway centreline all the way to 500ft which was what I had set as minimums. I then looked up for the first time since takeoff to find a well lit runway directly in front. A smooth landing followed.

    I will try the correct approach procedure for salinas 31 tomorrow.

    It looks to me like the 172 could fly this route and approach although it looks like nav 2 maybe permanent tuned into 158.25 instead of Salina VOR on 117.30.

  • I LEUVE the proper approach charts, I realise with old age that my DIY aproaches of yesteryear were putting innocents on the ground to unnecessary potentially very slight danger! (Edit, I obviously meant sim, not real flying).
    The over the Chualar ndb altitude if I remember well was 4000 feet. With some but not too much visibility this approach is superb.

    Edited once, last by Overloaded (April 7, 2015 at 12:21 PM).

  • Decided to try other ifr capable aircraft tonight to see I could complete an ifr flight to salvinas but I could do it in a single on for the following reasons:

    172 - displays nav1, nav2 and adf and there corresponding freqs. Has no dme and nav 2 is permanrntly set to 158.25 which to my knowledge is not a valid VOR or ils freq.
    737 - no display of which adf freq is set, both nav 1 and nav 2 are set to the same freq and neither display dme. Adf is displayed on the rmi but there is no way of knowing which NDB it is pointing to.
    747 - only displays Nav 1 and ADF although it does not display which ADF freq is set. There is no dme and there is no display of nav2.
    A320 - The rmi displays nav 1 and nav 2 but both the obs are permanently set to 90deg.Therefore the rmi is useless. There is no diplay of the adf freq and no dme for either nav 1 or nav 2. The PFD only seemed to diplay ils localiser and glide slop and would not display the VOR radials.
    King Air - displays nav 1 and adf nicely and displays selected freqs. Does not display nav 2 and has no dme.
    Learjet - display freqs for nav 1, nav 2 and ADF but does not diplay VOR or ILS for nav 2 and has no dme. It does diplay nav1 and adf.

    It looks like I will have to stick to the baron for my future ifr flights.

    Correction - although the 172 says that nav 2 is tuned into 158.25 with Salinas vor (117.30) on standby, it is actually tuned into to salinas vor with the obs set to 90. So although there is no dme, you fly to the Salina overheard using nav 2 and watching for the direction indicator to change from to from or visa Nerva depending which direction you approach from.

    Edited 3 times, last by 4535jacks (April 8, 2015 at 11:02 AM).

  • I really hope that as soon as the of version has been released, the iOS version will be updated so that all IFR equip aircraft can select and display nav 1, nav 2, adf and dme. This will make this app a great tool for pilots to practice rnav from the comfort of their sofa!

    Gary

  • Hi Gary, the 747 shows the NDB frequency in use on the FMC display, that is how they are selected in real life. The biggest drawback of the big jets is that the nav screen shows a HSI display in expanded mode which does not show the tail of the virtual ADF needle. Go overhead the beacon or pass with it anywhere but straight ahead and you get no information. With frozen nav instrument controls a full compass rose type HSI would have been more informative.
    The Salinas DME is usefull for airports to the north which have northerly and southerly approaches. It can help anticipate a fix or NDB/locator coming up. Shame it only works in the Baron. It must be an amazingly difficult feature to implement.

  • Overloaded, thanks for the heads up on the 747, I have now located the adf freq and noticed that the transponder is set to 7700 for mayday! I am not a fan of FMC flying and prefer flying VOR/loc/DME approaches. I have no real world commercial experience or an IR but learnt to fly using radio nav as part of my ppl and found rnav particularly interesting. When flying FSX on vatsim, I always fly vintage non-FMC aircraft and navigate the old way.

    Obviously the 747 and a320 are designed to be flown by an FMC driven FD but the older 737-500 has potential to be a great old school rnav aircraft with an RMI, HSI and DME. Pity that it does not display adf freq.

    If the DME was working in the 172 then it would be just as capable as the baron..........

    Could you explain how I can use the salinas VOR to help fix my position during approaches to airfields to the North?

    Gary

  • Dme Garry, if over the ndb at 99 nm it will be the same next time. Plus it will give a clue about which ndb was auto selected.
    Was all this advanced navaid stuff available in microsoft flight sim 3 in 1989 running on a 2 Mhz 2Mb 286?
    The VoR is good for the Marina vor approach. The needle on the 4th dot left of centre has the plane tracking the 082 track inbound with correct sense, needle left of the 4th dot, correct to the left. You can also fly on 080 into Salinas and line up when visual, there is a runway near to 080, sorry in a hurry now. Oh by the way fly over Monterey on 280 and the ils will be alive for runway 10 25 miles out.

    Edited 2 times, last by Overloaded: 100years out (April 9, 2015 at 10:12 AM).

  • Roger, I have using the dme to track my progress towards NDBs . I have been using sky vector to work out the distance between the NDB I am approaching and salinas and then I use the DME to calculate when I am approaching the NDB.

    I am currently practicing full approaches by flying over head the airfield so nav 1 loads the destination freq and I can then track away from the threshold, turn back and I will have glide scope and localiser data much further out, say 10 miles. This is a standard approach procedure in the UK as many UK airfields have the NDBs located on the airfield itself where in the US it seems that NDBs are located on the approach path meaning that there is no requirement to pass overhead the airfield during the approach.

    The problem with the 3 miles wake up on the ils is that it does not give you a lot of time and also you need to be a 1000ft AAL to have a good chance of intercepting the glide slope.

    Once I have mastered this, I will create a few AF2 approach charts that are simplified and use SAL DME to marking turning points and descent points. I will then do a short tutorial on flying the full approach instead of the the straight in approach I explained in the "added challenges" thread. I will then set a challenge I have created that will involve track to or from 4 NDBs, intercepting and flying VOR radial, using SAL DME to estimate location along a track and final flying a full approach from the airfield overhead. Each pilot will also have to plan their own route.

    I am doing this because I think radio nav opens up a whole new element to flying on AF2 and many users how no experience of it and are unsure how to start.

  • If you are heading north and the beacon/dme is east or west, the dme change will become increasingly small as you approach the 090/270 bearing. Trouble is how can an Aerofly 2 user be expected to use so many dots left or right on the VOR dial which is how the radials would have to be defined during this era of semi dead navaids. To be fair the frozen OBS does simulate the OBS knob falling off and rolling through a gap in the floor. Maybe that was what happened to the now really good but previously really bad Corsair, the Baron's OBS knob fell out of the last pilot's 1944 chinos trousers' turn ups and ended up jamming the rudder pedals and the elevator linkage at the bottom of the joystick.

    Your SID is great for a fully loaded 1944 DC4 on a hot day with an engine failure at Vr, or an Airbus 340 normal departure on Christmas Day.

    Re the Cessna not having a DME, try the really nice Marina VOR approach (click on the airport name in SkyVector). It brings you in with hold and fix defined by DME and/or NDB cross bearing so it is fine for the Cessna with the broken DME or the Baron with its OBS knob fallen through the Corsair floor (knob now found and thrown out...that mechanic mustn't work on Beechcraft twins).