Flight of Pitts and Extra (of FS-2), in acrobatics.

    Quote from delfinpm

    Are you sure? Sure that your rudder does not move simultaneously with the ailerons?

    I did a general reset, left unassigned the rudder, and continues moving simultaneously with the ailerons.

    Ok Delfin I just tried this, I unassigned my rudder pedals from the rudder and left it blank and sure enough as we see in your video the rudder moves with the ailerons. I was wrong, apologies.

    Devs we need some way of turning this auto rudder off please. Its ridiculous to get full rudder when applying full aileron!

    Delfin just so you know, if you assign an axis to the rudder (such as rudder pedals or twist grip rudder on joystick) then this effect does not happen and you can control the aircraft normally, this ONLY happens when the rudder is not assigned to an axis. What joystick do you have? maybe a stick with twist control would be better? Or if you have a good stick maybe get some rudder pedals. They make a surprising difference to how much fun it is to fly.

    Cav

    AFFS2 Needs Multiplayer - Please make it happen!

    Yes, I have it assigned. When I remove the assigenment I have this "auto rudder" too. Bug or feature? That's the question... :D

    Quote from jk1895

    Yes, I have it assigned. When I remove the assigenment I have this "auto rudder" too. Bug or feature? That's the question... :D

    Bug.

    There is absolutely no reason why rudder movement should track aileron movement apart from making it easier to taxi on the ground. Should be disabled in the air.

    AFFS2 Needs Multiplayer - Please make it happen!

    • Official Post

    Are you physically seeing this happen (example; when you move the ailerons you see the rudder moving)? I've been following this thread and i'm a bit confused here. I have noticed that some adjustments need to be made to the rudder control but all in all it's not too bad. Let's say, in the Cessna for example; when you apply rudder to "step on the bubble" and achieve full balance the wing shouldn't dip like it does currently. The rudder should apply yaw (which turns the nose on horizon), not aileron (which dips a wing). You can test this by flying in a strong cross-wind while lining up with the runway, you apply rudder to point the nose into the wind and equal opposite aileron to crab into the wind. Crabbing into the wind turns the nose into the wind while flying level. Currently it dips the wing which it shouldn't. Is this what you mean?

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    Quote from drhotwing1

    Are you physically seeing this happen (example; when you move the ailerons you see the rudder moving)? I've been following this thread and i'm a bit confused here. I have noticed that some adjustments need to be made to the rudder control but all in all it's not too bad. Let's say, in the Cessna for example; when you apply rudder to "step on the bubble" and achieve full balance the wing shouldn't dip like it does currently. The rudder should apply yaw (which turns the nose on horizon), not aileron (which dips a wing). You can test this by flying in a strong cross-wind while lining up with the runway, you apply rudder to point the nose into the wind and equal opposite aileron to crab into the wind. Crabbing into the wind turns the nose into the wind while flying level. Currently it dips the wing which it shouldn't. Is this what you mean?

    No this isn't what he means... the rudder moves exactly in a 1/1 ratio with aileron. So at maximum aileron deflection you also have maximum rudder deflection in the same direction. This is in NO WAY a correct behaviour for an auto-rudder system and makes it practically impossible to fly correctly.

    NOTE: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ASSIGNED TO RUDDER IN THE OPTIONS. If you have anything like a pair of rudder pedals or a twist grip axis on a joystick assigned then this rudder movement disappears. Please try it for yourself, delete the axis assignment for the rudder and then try moving the aileron once you're back in the sim.. The two should be linked.

    Cav

    AFFS2 Needs Multiplayer - Please make it happen!

    • Official Post
    Quote from CavendishD

    No this isn't what he means... the rudder moves exactly in a 1/1 ratio with aileron. So at maximum aileron deflection you also have maximum rudder deflection in the same direction. This is in NO WAY a correct behaviour for an auto-rudder system and makes it practically impossible to fly correctly.

    NOTE: THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ASSIGNED TO RUDDER IN THE OPTIONS. If you have anything like a pair of rudder pedals or a twist grip axis on a joystick assigned then this rudder movement disappears. Please try it for yourself, delete the axis assignment for the rudder and then try moving the aileron once you're back in the sim.. The two should be linked.

    Cav

    OK, I'll test it out. It might be something that just hasn't been addressed yet in development. I'm curious though as to why wouldn't one just bind the rudder control to a key or button? It's a primary control function.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    • Official Post

    Hi Jeff,

    he has bound buttons to the rudder but the Aerofly apparently still adds "auto rudder" when no axis is assigned. When I don't plug in my joystick and use the mobile overlay instead I also get this auto rudder which is just forwarding ailerons to the rudder.... But that is just useless it over-corrects in flight, only at low speeds would you need that much rudder. Or on the ground...

    I've mis-understood what Delfin meant by "jump". Jump to me is a physical step response but he just meant a smooth coupling of aileron and rudder which isn't jumping just a linear correlation, that's why I answered to "jumping" physical behavior, that only happens during replay or due to visual issues like limited frame rate.

    Regards,
    Jan

    • Official Post
    Quote from delfinpm

    Anyone know how to transfer video files recorded by FRAPS, to the forum, without uploading them previously to the Internet ?. If so, please let me know in this forum. I ask this, because I want to transfer more than one, and specifically one of 12 seconds, it takes to go up 1h.37 minutes, which is not practical. I guess there have to be procedures that are much faster and simpler.

    If you render the video the file size drops significantly. Use the Microsoft Movie maker that you probably already have installed. Then just drop the video in there and export it in another format. AVI recorded by fraps is pretty much raw data images but with compression techniques used for most videos you can get the same quality output with about 1/10 or sometimes 1/100s the file size. try mp4 or so (not an export myself).

    Or just use a video camera and film the screen itself. Their output files are usually processed already, so they are much faster to upload...

    • Official Post
    Quote from Jet-Pack

    Hi Jeff,

    he has bound buttons to the rudder but the Aerofly apparently still adds "auto rudder" when no axis is assigned. When I don't plug in my joystick and use the mobile overlay instead I also get this auto rudder which is just forwarding ailerons to the rudder.... But that is just useless it over-corrects in flight, only at low speeds would you need that much rudder. Or on the ground...

    I've mis-understood what Delfin meant by "jump". Jump to me is a physical step response but he just meant a smooth coupling of aileron and rudder which isn't jumping just a linear correlation, that's why I answered to "jumping" physical behavior, that only happens during replay or due to visual issues like limited frame rate.

    Regards,
    Jan

    Hi Jan,
    yes, I became confused by that as well and took a different path altogether. Oh well.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.

    Regards,

    Jeff

    Quote from drhotwing1

    Hi Jan,
    yes, I became confused by that as well and took a different path altogether. Oh well.

    Yeah I figured that he was talking about how the nose 'wobbled' around while he was trying to roll.. Also watching Delfins two videos I found it odd how the rudder moved exactly in sync with the ailerons. Hence my conclusion. I also regularly work with people who try and articulate technical things in a language which isn't there native tongue so maybe some of my spidey senses at work there too ;).

    Jetpack - Has this been added to the bug-list and is there any config file that we can edit to disable the auto rudder currently before its fixed?

    Delfin - Maybe you should think about getting a joystick with rudder to avoid this problem all together. I have the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X for use with simple games like Elite Dangerous and if I don't want to setup my HOTAS Warthog. Considering the price the T-Flight Hotas X is a great little stick and throttle combo and it has both twist grip and rudder rocker on the back of the throttle, depending on what is your preference. Also its really not a lot of money for what you get. https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/v57/Thrustma…-PS3/B001CXYMFS

    Thanks
    Cav

    AFFS2 Needs Multiplayer - Please make it happen!

    • Official Post

    There is one option in the main.mcf file (C:\Users\...\Documents\Aerofly FS 2\main.mcf) that you can check.
    Backup the file first, then edit it with an editor like Notepad++ or Wordpad.
    go to line 27 where is sais "controls_use_rudder_assist" and check that it is set to "false".

    Code
    <[bool][controls_use_rudder_assist][false]>

    If it is not set to "false" edit it to "false", then save it and and start the Aerofly FS 2.
    That should remove the aileron-rudder coupling that you experience.
    That parameter should be off per default for the desktop version, maybe it was left over from previous versions.

    Regards,
    Jan

    I apologize for not being able to participate in the debate that has arisen since my last participation. Professional and family reasons, have prevented me.

    I also apologize for some words used in the communication. English is not my native language, (it's the fourth language in which I have to express myself in this forum, and of the four, which presents me with the most difficulties, but although not very well, I get you to understand me, and that's what Important), and in conclusion, it always presents certain difficulties when using complex technical language. In the translation of words or concepts, they are sometimes used incorrectly because they do not know their exact translation, or simply, they present syntax problems since the sentences are formed in another way. I have noticed, for example, the word I used as "jamp", to express an idea in my language, but in English, it is something different. I have noticed in the several times that Jan has mentioned it. In the end, everything has been understood.

    Anyway, in any case, we have to understand each other since we speak many languages and very different. Here, they have a huge advantage in the accuracy of explanations, those whose native language is English. All the others, we can not express ourselves with that precision, that rigor, that perfect word, but I am sure, that we all make the necessary effort to understand each other. And ... I think we're doing pretty well.

    And ... back to our problems of ... "ailerons and rudder"

    These are in synthesis my conclusions from the observations made on the plane:

    Assign or NO, the rudder to a key or any other device, the rudder continues to work synchronously with the ailerons. But ... (in Extra and Pitts).

    WITH RUDDER ASSIGNED TO KEY OR DEVICE:

    A) .- Flying: if we push ailerons to any side, so synonymous rudder does.

    B) .- If after pushing the ailerons (and keeping them activated), we push the rudder in the opposite direction, this, back to the neutral position, and the plane makes a perfect roll. We can experience it by making a roll.

    C) .- If after pushing the ailerons (and keeping them activated with roll execution), we change the direction of the roll; the rudder continues in neutral position and the plane makes a perfect roll (without the influence of rudder). You can easily experience it.

    D) .- If we push the rudder before pushing the ailerons, this (rudder), remains activated regardless of what the ailerons do.

    If it were not too hard work for designers, I would recommend this:
    1º) .- Leave the rudder connected to the ailerons (as it is now).
    2nd) .- Give the user the possibility of disconnecting rudder from the ailerons.

    IMPORTANT NOTE:
    In the video sent by Jet-Packs (Jan), and first of these published in this publication, 4 important flight scenes are seen: "vertical rolls". These maneuvers are seen in these moments of video playback:
    Between 1:26 and 1:40 seconds
    Between 1:54 and 2:00 sec.
    Between 3:23 and 3: 32 seconds
    Between 3:48 and 3:56 seconds

    You see an absolutely perfect maneuver; Is observed in the end of the wing that crosses horizontally the horizon with a perfect parallelism.
    After discovering that the rudder moves synchronized with the alerions, it is evident that these would not allow that "perfect vertical rooll", since they would displace the axis of the airplane, of the trajectory that follows the airplane (and this would be appreciated in the end of the wing).

    Regards: Delfin[video=youtube_share;li3vF3XQesQ]

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    • Official Post

    To make this clear: the rudder assist that you are experiencing is not intended on a dektop computer and it shouldn't be enabled in the default settings. Either your main.mcf file is still old and has that setting enabled (PLEASE CHECK THAT!! I'm asking that for the third time now) or we still have a bug in the code.

    The F15 and F18 and all airliners and all other aircraft with a yaw damper are not good for testing the auto-rudder issue, because they should move the rudder slightly as shown in your latest F15 video. That is just the turn coordination / yaw dampening working...

    Regards,
    Jan

    Quote from delfinpm

    Ok Jan, but if so, it is clear that the rudder was disconnected from the ailerons (and not as it is now). As it is now, it is absolutely impossible to execute that perfect maneuver. That is what I affirm in my publication

    Delfin the rudder is only connected to the aileron if you don't have rudder pedals. IF I assign my rudder pedals to the rudder axis this interconnect goes away. I have no problems flying perfect rolls in the extra. The rudder ONLY moves when i move my rudder pedals.

    A quick way for you to solve this problem is open your main.mcf file using wordpad or notepad++ (after backing up the original) found in C:\Users\YourNameHere\Documents\Aerofly FS 2\main.mcf, go down to line 27 where is says "controls_use_rudder_assist" and check that it is set to "false".

    Code
    <[bool][controls_use_rudder_assist][false]>

    and then save the file.

    Then Open AFFS2 and see if it still happens.

    I repeat this again that for the rest of us who have a control axis assigned to rudder this isn't happening.


    Quote from Jet-Pack

    Either your main.mcf file is still old and has that setting enabled (PLEASE CHECK THAT!! I'm asking that for the third time now) or we still have a bug in the code.

    Jan

    Jan, I have recently re-installed AFFS2 after an upgrade to Win10 and I can confirm that the aileron/rudder interconnect happens to me when I unplug my rudder pedals. I am not running beta releases. If this helps.

    Cav

    AFFS2 Needs Multiplayer - Please make it happen!