Denver at night

  • Downtown Denver area looks great at night!

    Street lights and lit buildings all the way out to the airport!


    Are any other cities like this other than Meigs/Chicago?

    Are there plans for this to be everywhere?

    The NYC boroughs and NJ could really use this treatment.


    Thanks,


    Rob

  • Rob, I'm guessing you're using a monitor versus a VR headset. I just tried Denver at night in VR and it's just too blurry for the resolution of my Samsung Odyssey even with RS = 1.33 . I have the Monterey add-on which looks nice in daylight but I remember trying it at night and had the same issue.


    Today, we trade resolution for immersion with VR headsets and it's worth it when the content is well lit, but when most of the pixels are dark it's not. Hopefully the Odyssey2 will have 3200x2880 OLED panels to narrow/eliminate that gap.

  • Rob, I'm guessing you're using a monitor versus a VR headset. I just tried Denver at night in VR and it's just too blurry for the resolution of my Samsung Odyssey even with RS = 1.33 . I have the Monterey add-on which looks nice in daylight but I remember trying it at night and had the same issue.


    Today, we trade resolution for immersion with VR headsets and it's worth it when the content is well lit, but when most of the pixels are dark it's not. Hopefully the Odyssey2 will have 3200x2880 OLED panels to narrow/eliminate that gap.

    Hmmm... I'm curious about this, and wonder if it's something specific to the Odyssey. I fly at night all the time in the Rift and I think in some ways it actually is more immersive than daylight flying. When you say it's blurry, do you mean the appearance of the items like runways are no longer crisp enough to see clearly? Perhaps it's a difference of how near-black levels are treated in the different HMDs?

  • If I fly 100 feet over the Denver airport, the runway lights look realistic but if I then look off in the distance at the city of Denver the freeway lights and neighborhood lights look blurry even in the center of my view.


    With WMR headsets being only 3 months old, I've also wondered if the 3D rendering has not been optimized for the headsets - especially the Odyssey with its unique 1600x1440 OLED panels. I was trying DCS 2,5 beta a couple of days ago and noticed the cockpit looked sharp but the trees nearby looked like double-vision. At the time I thought it was the "beta" status of the flight sim but maybe the Denver night blurries represent the same symptom.


    Maybe the Aerofly developers can comment on any Oculus vs Vive vs WMR implementations. I'll see if I can get some screenshots / pics as examples.

  • I think Denver and Chicago look great at night in VR!

    If I fly 100 feet over the Denver airport, the runway lights look realistic but if I then look off in the distance at the city of Denver the freeway lights and neighborhood lights look blurry even in the center of my view.

    Things do indeed look great at 100 feet but that's about it. As you may notice it is all in the eye of the beholder. VR in its current state is nice for the 'immersion effect' but it looks terrible IMHO (!). You have the choice between being greatly immersed in VR with pixelated and blurry scenery OR being less immersed with a perfectly sharp 2D screen. There always will be people who say VR looks sharp and wonderful and I am happy for them but I just see it (no pun intended) differently. I myself do all my simming in 2D (and in P3D btw) and only use VR (and AFS2) for a quick 'immersion fix' once in a while.

  • There appears to be a VR issue at night with the dark/black graphics layer for things like lakes and vegetation.


    If I'm over Denver at 6:00 UTC heading west and I nod my head up and down slightly (like you do sometimes when listening to music) the lake surface moves up and down while the surrounding area doesn't. It does it too while looking at the mountains - even the cockpit shadows bounce around when I do it. During the day, it doesn't do that.


    This may be limited to WMR headsets because the SteamVR drivers are still maturing. I'd be interested to hear if any Rift/Vive owners can re-create the same issue. This issue is probably contributing to my Denver@night blurry comments because any time I move my head, all the black terrain areas are doing this temporary shift.


    FYI - I found this short video of Denver at night from the air - https://youtu.be/3LYOtRPdOu0

  • As far as too large (blurry) light points in VR, the initial IPACS texture for light points was apparently too small (sure looked good to me in VR) for monitor (non-VR) viewing and so a texture with more blur (larger radius) was substituted by IPACS (this discussion took place many months ago - just after Innsbruck was available). I have asked for the original set of light point textures to be available for us VR folks but that hasn't happened. Now with major cultivation efforts (I have done all of San Diego county), the blur of thousands of light points on top of each other when flying toward San Diego from maybe 30 miles north is way too much.


    Dave W.

  • Ah... That is a problem inherent to the OLED screens used in current gen VR devices. You can see the same issue on some phones and tablets, one example being here:It has to do with a lag associated with very dark OLED pixels switching from black to an illuminated state. The reason you only see it over the lake is (I'm guessing) the lake is nearly black. I can't comment on other VR HMDs because I haven't tested them myself, but in the Rift they do some tricks with pre-driving the pixels to minimize it somewhat. It helps but doesn't take it away completely.

  • I know this has been discussed in the past however I think it is good to bring it up again from time to time. There are more and more lights so it would be fun to fly in night also but it is not fun: to blurry. Night lighting today is definitely not yet a strength of aerofly. I have my rift for spme weeks only but if it has been better one day I do not understand why it was changed to worse.

    Regards,

    Thomas

    Best regards,

    Thomas


    i7-6700K @ 4.0 GHz, Geforce GTX 1080, 32MB RAM, 500 GB SSD, 1 TB SSD, 1TB HD, 32" Monitor 4K, Oculus Rift

  • I tried SS=2.0 but it didn't make a difference - the real issue appears to be what whitav8 mentions ...


    "the initial IPACS texture for light points was apparently too small (sure looked good to me in VR) for monitor (non-VR) viewing and so a texture with more blur (larger radius) was substituted by IPACS"


    Sounds like we could use another graphics option under the VR tab to adjust the light texture size.

  • Thanks Rob. I was originally going to buy one of those HOTAS support kits but my wife thought it was ugly and would leave all the wires exposed ... 3 months later I had my F-15 replica ready for VR with all wires/PC hidden! In addition to the ButtKicker effects, feeling the sides of the Hotas support boxes against your knees while flying adds to the realism that you're in a tight cockpit - a nice little bonus I wasn't expecting.

  • Night lights do look better after the June 29th update - thanks IPACS! I had to check out Denver again after several mentions in the UPDATE thread and night lights now look very realistic - I even pulled up this actual Denver flight video from my Feb2018 post and FS2 now has the same look - well done!


    FYI - I found this short video of Denver at night from the air - https://youtu.be/3LYOtRPdOu0