Cultivation template file for scenProc

  • I also found there is a limit to the level of detail a TSC can provide before things start disappearing. When designing a complex airport for my home town I ran into this limit somewhere north of 280 objects. So I had to keep the objects under this limit. Whether this just a finite number of objects, or is also impacted by the complexity of those objects is anyone's guess. I found that this limit only applies to a single TSC, as multiple TSC files covering neighbouring areas can comfortably exceed this limit even though all objects from both TSCs are visible at the same time.


    I am just starting to integrate 3d objects into my template, so I guess I will bump into that as I get further along.

    Well, in my scenery I display some 13k+ TMB objects without anyone to disappear.


    Initial tests with 1 TSC file per TMB totally kill the FPS

    Tests with 1 TSC calling all 13k TMB objects causes extremely long load time at startup (>10 minutes as far as I remember), but then everything is loaded, so no limit of 280 objects in my case.


    Currently, I have approximately 45 TSC files, each calling approx. 300 TMB objects, which is the best compromise so far (long load times, but acceptable). Torsten is preparing something for me to go ahead with merging TMB files in order to improve performances.


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

  • Tests with 1 TSC calling all 13k TMB objects causes extremely long load time at startup

    I noticed increased loading time as soon as I incorporated 3d objects. I had replaced all communication towers with 3d objects, which resulted in 84 3d objects in the TSC. But there only 5 tower types, so my guess is that Aerofly is loading each 3d object every time for every instance which is not very efficient. It would work better if a 3d object is loaded once then the same information used wherever it is needed.


    I had heard the XREF objects have a lower load on Aerofly. I wonder if they are just loaded more efficiently, rather that being less detailed 3d objects? I also noticed that XREF objects have one TMB file for multiple 3d objects. I wonder if that is what Torsten is suggesting.


    Perhaps a better method of creating separate TSC files would be to have scenProc spit out a new one, once a specific number of objects have been placed in the TSC file. I have found that the same split grid value does not give a consistent number of splits for each different OSM file. It is different with each source OSM file, even though all my test areas use the same level 10 sized grid for OSM extraction.


    If you have a look at the amount of objects loaded at JFK looking towards Manhattan, Aerofly is capable of handling a lot of objects. While the New York initial load time was longer than other parts of the world is was still quite short, and nothing like the 10 minutes you experienced. All we need do is work out why user created 3d objects result in such long load times compared to Aerofly 3d objects. Lets hope the merged TMB files are the answer.

    Thanks, Chris

    Win 10 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i5-9400F @ 3.9, 6GB Nvidia RTX-2060

  • Have successfully added 3d communication towers, power towers and water towers to the unreleased version 8 of my template. There is no performance penalty in scenProc processing time. They add a significant amount of realism, but this comes at the price of increased loading time. Currently the loading time using my template with the new 3d objects saw the loading time increase to about 1 minute 30 seconds before Aerofly plopped you into the cockpit. I would be reluctant to add more 3d objects as I think it would result in an unacceptable loading time.


    Antoine has said indicated he is hoping iPacs can come up with a solution for this problem. But if not, then are you be willing to accept longer loading Aerofly loading times in exchange for greater realism like this?


    The large tower on the right is something you always see flying into Brisbane, and is now very realistic in Aerofly. VFR pilots often get clearance to track via the Bald Hills radio mast.


    Thanks, Chris

    Win 10 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i5-9400F @ 3.9, 6GB Nvidia RTX-2060

    Edited once, last by crispy136 ().

  • I had heard the XREF objects have a lower load on Aerofly. I wonder if they are just loaded more efficiently, rather that being less detailed 3d objects? I also noticed that XREF objects have one TMB file for multiple 3d objects. I wonder if that is what Torsten is suggesting.

    Torsten's statement relate to my Paris scenery consisting in a heavy mix of cultivation and 3D objects.

    Everything that can be featured by cultivation is done so.

    Buildings with more complex shapes (most of the city centre and near suburbs) are featured with blocks of highly optimized 3D blocks (each approx 2km x 2km area).

    Specific landmarks (monuments) are featured by isolated 3D objects.


    There are thus some 13'500 tmb objects and millions of cultivation items to load and display, that's way beyond the NewYork DLC.

    Torsten's suggestion is to try merging my tmb block objects into fewer, larger tiles.


    In your case, you're talking about isolated 3D objects that should typically belong to libraries. A library typically gathers such objects that are loaded once in memory and may be called and displayed at various places. That's way more efficient than isolated 3D objects you reload each time.


    I'd expect XREF objects to be handled this way, since they are merged, as you noticed, into a single tmb file, like a library => this library is loaded once, and you only call the placement of a specific object from the library.


    That's why I asked IPACS to document how to merge generic objects into an XREF library. This is no rocket science, we just need the IPACS-specific process flow and syntax, but IPACS never replied, not even stating they don't want to share that information...


    Quote

    Perhaps a better method of creating separate TSC files would be to have scenProc spit out a new one, once a specific number of objects have been placed in the TSC file. I have found that the same split grid value does not give a consistent number of splits for each different OSM file. It is different with each source OSM file, even though all my test areas use the same level 10 sized grid for OSM extraction.

    It's not really a matter of number of objects per TSC, but rather the distance from the TSC reference point, otherwise you'll have misplacement (and floating objects if you use autoheight).


    In my Paris case, since I have several thousands of objects to place, the best compromise so far was to set 1 TSC file per Level10 tile, calling all objects in that tile (300+). My 3D blocks are also placed in absolute height, preventing any floating/burried object, but this is optimized and only fits to the associated 5m mesh I compiled (it doesn't work that bad with default mesh though)...

    Merging objects will still cause long load times, but should improve handling while in-flight.


    I expect Orbx to face the same issues with London, which is comparable in size, density and complexity with Paris.

    P3D handles it much better thanks to libraries and LOD and the 64bit version has no more 4GB limitation.


    As stated above, isolated generic objects like masts, pylons, tanks, etc. should belong to libraries.


    Cheers

    Antoine

    Config : i7 6900K - 20MB currently set at 4.00GHz, Cooling Noctua NH-U14S, Motherboard ASUS Rampage V Extreme U3.1, RAM HyperX Savage Black Edition 16GB DDR4 3000 MHz, Graphic Card Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 8GB, Power supply Corsair RM Series 850W, Windows 10 64 bit.

    Edited 3 times, last by Trespassers ().

  • Here is the TSC spacing IPACS used in the South Florida DLC.


    Red dots = TOC only TSC files with SIZE = 5000 (dot-to-dot spacing is approx 30 km)

    Blue crosses = Airport TSC files with SIZE = 5000

    Squares = non-airport TSC files with 3D objects, GREEN has SIZE = 5000, BLACK has SIZE = 25000 for keybridge_02 and 50000 for Miami City Skyline



  • That's why I asked IPACS to document how to merge generic objects into an XREF library. This is no rocket science, we just need the IPACS-specific process flow and syntax, but IPACS never replied, not even stating they don't want to share that information...

    I asked a similar thing and got no response. I think that not helping the community with creating extra content is a missed opportunity.

    Thanks, Chris

    Win 10 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i5-9400F @ 3.9, 6GB Nvidia RTX-2060

  • Here is the TSC spacing IPACS used in the South Florida DLC.

    Thanks, great information. I never purchased South Florida. The only issue is that in my testing the size value has no impact on the 3d objects. iPacs insists that it does, but the reality is it doesn't.


    The spacing seems to indicate we are on the right track with cultivation though. But I'm sure we are doing something not quite right due to the problems encountered with 3d objects, and draw distances.

    Thanks, Chris

    Win 10 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i5-9400F @ 3.9, 6GB Nvidia RTX-2060

  • Chris,

    please try to use as many xref objects a possible (instead of regular 3D models).

    You probably know, that you can use ANY object which is within the xref_... catalogs (just ommit _virtual from the naming).

    i.e. xref_usa_airport



    example in ObjectGen:

    Code
    1. <!-- VOR-->
    2. <nodeConfiguration>
    3. <selectionCondition expression=" ($man_made == 'vor')"/>
    4. <defaultModel>
    5. <staticModel name=""/>
    6. </defaultModel>
    7. <modelMap>
    8. <xrefMapEntry expression="($man_made == 'vor')" name="vor2"/>
    9. </modelMap>
    10. </nodeConfiguration>

    resulting in the TOC as


    Code
    1. <[xref][element][0]
    2. <[string8][name][vor2]>
    3. <[vector3_float64][position][-80.55960595876 27.96141440568 0]>
    4. <[float32][direction][16.13529]>
    5. >
  • please try to use as many xref objects a possible (instead of regular 3D models).

    Thanks Thomas, Was planning to do this when if they become available in scenProc. But the majority of XREF objects are airport related rather than general scenery related. I haven't looked at OSM data for airports yet, but thought I might be able to do something to enhance airports without the need for a lot of work in Fscloudport. The VOR you suggested will be easy I think. Other than airport objects, you are limited to vehicles, houses, factories and storage tanks and 1 weather tower. A pretty limited list. I may be able to use XREF factories to mix them in with cultivation buildings to give us a bit of building variety. XREF houses are much better than any houses cultivation can produce, so that's another possibility. The storage tanks are limited in size, and mixing them with larger cultivation generated tanks will look a bit odd. Not sure what to do with cars, as I didn't like them placed on roads, but perhaps there is scope for using them in parking lots, although getting the alignment right will be difficult.

    Thanks, Chris

    Win 10 64-bit, 24GB RAM, i5-9400F @ 3.9, 6GB Nvidia RTX-2060

  • The only issue is that in my testing the size value has no impact on the 3d objects

    I disagree as I did some testing with the Miami City Skyline, which is one massive tmb object that's a 10-mile long string of buildings. The DLC has SIZE=50000 (~31 miles) for the Miami Skyline TSC file. If you completely exit out of AF2, and start from a location outside of this 31 mile radius, you won't see the downtown skyline until you fly inside this radius.



    So IPACS gets you into the cockpit for that first flight as quick as possible by 1) only loading the nearby TSC files into memory, and 2) keeping the SIZE values small. However, to avoid major landmarks from "popping" into view, they increase the SIZE value significantly.


    If you change locations several times during the same session, I believe those additional TSC files are loaded / added into memory and the previous TSC files remain in memory. I'm not sure what happens once your memory is full - I'm guessing some of the data gets cached into storage (SSD / HDD).

  • I reinstalled your v7 then redid some of my local area cultivations hoping to see the new towers, but, I guess you have not added the new realistic tall towers to the file. The towers are properly located but still the stacked buildings.

    When Pigs Fly. A steely-eyed Sierra Hotel record setting F-15E Strike Eagle simulator pilot. 8o

    ready for some voices in the sky? now available . . . Aerofly FS2 RC ATC https://afs2rcatc.com/


  • A few challenges I ran into when using the OSM data for radio towers:


    1) multiple radio stations on the same tower result in 2 OSM entries with the same lat/lon - this can be due to the station broadcasting on both AM & FM or ownership has changed over the years so you could have 3 entries for 3 different owners for the same tower (= TOC tower might not show/flicker, or multiple 3D tower objects)


    2) OSM data is stale so a tower entry exists but the tower was removed or was wiped out by a hurricane


    3) there's no height data for the OSM towers, you can guess based on some of the tower description attributes (-AM taller than -FM but some don't have this detail) random is risky because some short towers are near airports so creating a random tall one looks out-of-place. When I manually place them I use vfrmap.com to get the location and height of current towers.


    4) tower lighting is also height dependent (short towers = steady red, tall = flashing once every 2 sec) and you don't want all the lights flashing in sync (only close towers should flash together)

  • Good insight, Ken. I am slowly making a list of local towers here in the woods of Mississippi. When google street view has the tower I snap a screenshot.


    Do we have a collection of tmb files for cell towers any place? Maybe a half dozen should cover 95% of the installations.

    When Pigs Fly. A steely-eyed Sierra Hotel record setting F-15E Strike Eagle simulator pilot. 8o

    ready for some voices in the sky? now available . . . Aerofly FS2 RC ATC https://afs2rcatc.com/


  • Jake posted some towers on flight-sim.org last year and I included them in my South Florida TL Add-on and towerProcTL tool ...


    https://flight-sim.org/filebas…ication-water-towers-etc/


    https://flight-sim.org/filebas…-south-florida-tl-add-on/


    https://flight-sim.org/filebas…hp?entry/132-towerproctl/

  • Thanks Ken, I have those. None look like the cell towers around here.

    When Pigs Fly. A steely-eyed Sierra Hotel record setting F-15E Strike Eagle simulator pilot. 8o

    ready for some voices in the sky? now available . . . Aerofly FS2 RC ATC https://afs2rcatc.com/