Aeroscenery Water

  • OK, the water question again. I hope I'm adding something here rather than repeating an idea that's already been discussed.


    I've done a bit of geoconverting but as I'm mainly interested in the UK the big issue is water. Editing the coast takes ages. Now we know that sharing scenery is somewhat iffy copyrightwise (and data storage/bandwidth wise) but I was wondering if we can come up with a way of sharing coastline masks. Now that one of our own (i.e. nickhod ) controls the tools there is the option to create a masking system that can be input with the tile downloads. One quick thought is that instead of throwing away the original pre-edited tile there could be an option to input the edited and pre-edited in order to generate a mask as a by product which can be uploaded somewhere and used by others.


    Even slicker is to combine geotiles with coastline vector data which OS Data provides for free. DIfferent systems for different regions here though. Perhaps we need working groups for different regions.

  • I have already completed the UK courtesy of Bing images, GE are not as good although Bing isn't great in some areas. I made from the south all the way up to just north of Blackpool. After that going further north is hit and miss.


    I have also completed all of Ireland.


    As I have already shared my old FSX scenery with the world doing it for FS 2 is not a problem for me.


    However its uploading big files as my internet speed is capped at around 1MBs.


    Any ideas please?

    Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, Intel Pentium G2130 @ 3.20GHz, 16.0 GB RAM DDR3, ASUS H61M-K, Graphics PHL 273V5 1920x1080 @ 60Hz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX960, Thrustmaster Joystick and Home Made Rudder Pedals.

  • I have always found it questionable that it is considered perfectly legal to download and modify bing map data, while it suddenly becomes illegal to pass those modifications on to a friend. I'm no legal expert, but if you ask me, this sounds like a rule that people who make a business out of creating scenery must have made up.


    I mean, the positive side is that it turns flightsimming into this slightly anachronistic elderly man's hobby from the 80ies, where everyone spends hours sitting at home preparing exactly the same stuff for his hobby and it becomes the most time consuming activity of the whole thing. Just like building railroad models tracks, or painting tabletop strategy game miniatures, but in the digital domain. I can sympathise with that, but I believe this is a choice and not a necessity. The technology for sharing is definitely there.


    The bandwidth argument is even less convincing. People speak of a few giga or terabytes as if it was this huge amount of data. It's 2018, a a time where millions of people stream hd video over the internet all day long and there are filesharing possibilities where you can upload and download tons and tons of terabytes of data almost for free.


    My hypothesis is that people in the flightsim scene actually do not want to just download scenery from somewhere, but rather enjoy spending a lot of time creating it for themselves because it is an enjoyable part of the whole hobby experience. The copyright and bandwith arguments seem more like quick little excuses t justify that. But what do I know...

  • My limited experience over the years in FSX has been that most simmers cant be bothered to make their own scenery and look to getting it free from some download sight.


    Trying to upload over 1 TB of scenery is not for the faint hearted when you only have an internet upload speed of 1 MBs.


    This problem was got over by my friend sending me a spare HD and I loaded it onto that and returned it by courier.


    Perhaps the FS 2 community are different?

    Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, Intel Pentium G2130 @ 3.20GHz, 16.0 GB RAM DDR3, ASUS H61M-K, Graphics PHL 273V5 1920x1080 @ 60Hz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX960, Thrustmaster Joystick and Home Made Rudder Pedals.

  • I guess I'm just rather risk averse as I run a website company and have had quite a few runs ins with litigious organisations like Getty images who make life very unpleasant if you (or a client) unwittingly use an image that they have copyright on. So we're in a blurry area where people generally feel comfortable using Bing/Google maps data for personal use (technically in breach of automated retrieval AUPs is my understanding) but less sure when it comes to sharing - even if its non profit.


    So I don't make these points from a commercial perspective just from a personal caution perspective.


    Bandwidth wise I'm in the sticks. Although I can eventually download lots of GB I'll get old trying to upload. As for filesharing space I trust dropbox but don't pay for the big GB. I'm less trustful of others. I have a bit of FTP space too but large regions of photoreal would use it up pretty quickly.

  • I have asked Nickhod, the author of Aeroscenery to consider a command script file for making scenery that we could share and if he could read the coast line vector data and create completed water that might be a reasonable solution. And if there was a shareable Scenproc file or just provide the TOC files, except for the lengthy Geoconverter times , we might be able to automatically reproduce each other’s scenery

  • Guys, make no mistake here, sharing orthos is illegal practice. In my line of work I work with quite a few lawyers, solicitors, and legal council and a while ago I seeked professional legal opinion on behalf of our company IPACS by a federal legal council and have proof that while obtaining and using ortho data for your own private use for a flight simulator is even questionable if using Bing, Google, and Virtual Earth they let it alone, but if you plan on making scenery with these tiles and then distribute them so someone else over the internet (via upload/download) it is considered unlawful theft and redistribution without permission through a public means.

    This opinion is for American soil but the source of these tiles don't care where the individual downloading their files are from.


    The safer source is USGS (NAIP) where they do allow for individuals to use and distribute their ortho tiles but do flag users that exceed a certain download size unless you have what they call a 'redistribution license'.


    In having and obtaining this legal opinion, under no circumstance will we (IPACS) allow for the distribution/redistribution of any ortho tiles on our domain and with me as the holder of this opinion, any distribution that I find on any other website or domain other than ours I will have to report.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • I have asked Nickhod, the author of Aeroscenery to consider a command script file for making scenery that we could share and if he could read the coast line vector data and create completed water that might be a reasonable solution. And if there was a shareable Scenproc file or just provide the TOC files, except for the lengthy Geoconverter times , we might be able to automatically reproduce each other’s scenery

    This is my view of the way forward. Vector would be best.

  • Sorry if I was being naive here. If it really is that much of a legal problem then of course its best to completely stay away from sharing over the internet, even if all the images themselves are available to the public. I guess there's a reason after all why people need to study for years to understand law :)

  • So has anyone considered asking for a license to download and distribute? Or if they wont, maybe we can create an organization with members, and all chip in, we can just purchase a license for members. Or create an independent subscription service? Seems like most of us would shell out some cash to do this legally.


    Or, what would it cost IPACS to do this for us and include it in the price of the game, or offer a subscription service? Yeah, I know IPACS won't, but they could if the really wanted to.

  • So has anyone considered asking for a license to download and distribute? Or if they wont, maybe we can create an organization with members, and all chip in, we can just purchase a license for members. Or create an independent subscription service? Seems like most of us would shell out some cash to do this legally.


    Or, what would it cost IPACS to do this for us and include it in the price of the game, or offer a subscription service? Yeah, I know IPACS won't, but they could if the really wanted to.

    $$$$$$$$$ when I looked into it with independent imagery providers. And that's not a "global" licence but for a few hundred km2.

  • This makes interesting reading lifted from Microsoft Services Agreement.........


    Effective date 1 May, 2018


    Bing and MSN

    • f. Bing and MSN.
      • i. Bing and MSN Materials. The articles, text, photos, maps, videos, video players and third-party material available on Bing and MSN, including through Microsoft bots, applications and programs, are for your non-commercial, personal use only. Other uses, such as downloading, copying or redistributing these materials, or using these materials or products to build your own products, are permitted only to the extent specifically authorised by Microsoft or rights holders, or allowed by applicable copyright law. Microsoft or other rights holders reserve all rights to the material not expressly granted by Microsoft under the licence terms.
      • ii. Bing Maps. You may not use Bird's eye imagery of the United States, Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, Australia or Japan for governmental use without our separate written approval.
      • iii. Bing Places and Bing Manufacturer Centre. When you provide your Data or Your Content to Bing Places or Bing Manufacturer Centre, you grant Microsoft a worldwide, royalty-free intellectual property licence to use, reproduce, save, modify, aggregate, promote, transmit, display or distribute as part of a service, and sub-licence those rights to third parties.


    Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, Intel Pentium G2130 @ 3.20GHz, 16.0 GB RAM DDR3, ASUS H61M-K, Graphics PHL 273V5 1920x1080 @ 60Hz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX960, Thrustmaster Joystick and Home Made Rudder Pedals.

    Edited 2 times, last by IZ0JUB ().