R22: Changed Flight Model [Professional Mode] ??

  • Dear IPACS developers !


    My question is: Does the R22 professional flight model has changed in any aspect since IPACS's latest OB Update ? I'm asking because it seems easier to fly, peculiar hovering close above ground, and it seems more stable in the pitch axis - at least to me.


    Maybe it's just my own imagination, and maybe the only reason is cause I've become pretty skilled in flying helos :).

    But from the beginning on I was very impressed about the cooperation among Claude Vuichard and IPACS and I would like to know if anything - maybe - has changed.



    Thank you in advance;
    and thank you for giving us such a great helo which feels so realistically to fly in front of a home-PC.


    Well, my intial question was not held impolite ! So, why are you not giving me a simple answer for a simple question ?


    Giving no answer and ignoring a longtime supporter/customer of Aerofly (since aerofly FS 2012) is something I have not deserved....

  • Funny you should say that, I also thought I noticed a change, I even double checked if the update didn't maybe default me to easy mode, seems to be needing less left pedal when pulling collective for take off, than it did before the update.

    The worst day of flying still beats the best day of real work.

  • The FS2 R-22 originally seemed to roll wildly with surprisingly little translation left or right. I don’t remember from my minute amount of Enstrom helicopter time, long ago if that is realistic, I sort of don’t remember any reluctance to lunge wildly in any direction given the tiniest excuse.

    I do not think I got any better and it would be best if the helicopter is kept as hard to fly as it is in real life.

  • ...I even double checked if the update didn't maybe default me to easy mode, seems to be needing less left pedal when pulling collective for take off, than it did before the update.

    ---> :) funny you are mentioning this: It is exactely the same I have done first !!!! - and I can confirm your experiences during take off literally.


    ......I do not think I got any better and it would be best if the helicopter is kept as hard to fly as it is in real life.

    ---> exactely, that's the one and it is sooooooo true.........


    So, if any changes have done: Pleas IPACS, revert it back to Claude Vuichard original flight model/behaviour.

    BECAUSE WE ARE HELICOPTER FREAKS AND WE WANT THE REAL STUFF :thumbup:



    All the best, and a big thank you to all you guys who have confirmed my presumptions,

    Clemens (from Germany)

  • I thought there was a change as well. They had apparently added an "assist" (in easy mode) that yanked the pedals as you attempted to turn, supposedly to make things easier, but it felt to me like somebody invisible who disliked me was in the cockpit randomly stomping on them, and it stopped me dead from flying the R22. ;(


    I did notice that seems to be gone.

    Devons rig

    Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit /Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

  • Hope Ipacs revert this, there are some minor tweaks that need to be done to further improve the r22, but not this.


    Yesterday early night I got a new AFS2 OB-update via Steam, and the first I've tested was the - so called - "not changed flight model" of IPACS's Robinson R22 (--> look at Jet-Pack's statement above).


    Well, what should I say, and it makes me even sad :(:


    • still the same crazy easy flight behaviour during - so called - Professional Mode (it's the only mode I'm flying this little bird).
    • still able to land on the craziest spots I choose during flight, with almost no struggeling and only little corrections imput in comparison to my main experiences, and before the latest two OB-updates.
    • E.g. this special previous "vivid translational lift effect" has almost gone; which was soooo unique compared to all the other iterations in various other flight-sims.
    • discovered myself to get even bored while flying because it has become so easy to fly. Current - so called "not changed" - flight model strongly reminds me on the various helos I can find in FSX/P3D - or better - X-Plane.


    Résumé: They've cut down the feathers of a former interesting and vivid bird.



    Cheers and all the best.

  • Try to delete the main.mcf file located in your documents\Aerofly root folder, see if that resolves your issue.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • Try to delete the main.mcf file located in your documents\Aerofly root folder, see if that resolves your issue.


    --> I've done as you adviced DrHotwing1 (deleting main.mcf file), but the result was surprisingly quite different:


    + Pro:

    • Finally I got my TrackIR function back in external view (to pan around), which never worked before in my AFS2; but I could neglect it up to now because ~ 99% of the time I'm flying in VC view-mode.
    • Certain microstutters have gone which forced me to restart the sim several times before they have been gone (--> this issue occured after the last two OB updates).

    - Con:

    • Any and all of IPAC's airports in Colorado have disappeared (e.g. Denver, Aspen, Telluride....) completely on my airport selection-map; so it's not possible to select them as start points anymore. --> the only exception is ORBX's custom KEGE-Eagle/Vail which is further visible and selectable.


    Regarding the R22 I could not notice any remarkable differences (Professional Mode still way lot easier in comparison the time BEFORE the last two OB updates), and I've dicided to do a personal hardcore-test:


    Shortly after the initial release of IPACS's R22 helicopter I became very ambitious to master this bird in Professional Mode only. But it grew quite frustrating because I tried this with only one control device, namely the Thrustmaster T-16000 stick.


    Long story short: because of the challenging and fun making flight model of the R22 I decided to make an own DIY Collective Stick, together with a complete remolding/enhancement of my old Saitek Rudder Pedals.


    The results were (and still are) just splendid, and I was able to safe a LOT OF MONEY -- it could'nt work better :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.

    And the best: I started to master the AFS2 Robinson in Professional Flight Mode exclusively (only TrackIR - NO VR).


    Yesterday I've done the following test (of course Professional Mode only)

    1. Selecting a provoking test-scenario for the R22 (no VR, but TrackIR).
    2. I decided for heli-jumps in LA Down Town & New York City (thank you IPACS; you have done a superb job in LA - this spot is almost helicopter paradise to fly - the helipads/lightnings are beautifully crafted - a lot of joy to fly in LA Down Town :love: :thumbup:)
    3. Wind & Turbulence settings at 60 % up to 70 %.
    4. Daytime at dusk !!! --> which it makes more difficult to land on the top roofs and heli flying in general without VR - because in 2D/with TrackIR the perception of depth is constrained.


    Results:

    1. With my full flight gear-setup and devices these two flying parcours were pretty easy to handle, as expected.


    After this I've done an artifice: I completey disabled my Rudder Pedals and Collective Stick and reverted my whole heli-flying setup back to ONLY ONE STICK MANAGEMENT (just one control stick - the T.16000) as months before (see above in this long post).


    2. After adapting over some minutes I was able to fly the same difficult parcours WITH ONLY ONE TWIST AXES JOYSTICK (no other device) even without any faults or crashing - I even could land within the red circles and straight on the numbers by the first attempt.


    Something I could have never achieved weeks or months before, because it was so hard and difficult to fly without pedals and collective, and only in 2D.


    This second attempt performed so well that I had to look more than twice if the flight model - maybe - reverted back to easy mode, but this was not the case !!!


    For me this is a clear evidence that the R22's flight model has changed towards significantly easier to fly during profi-mode.


    If a heli novice would have asked me months ago if it is possible to master the R22 professional flight model with only one joystick, I would have answered: You will experience a lot of frustrating moments !


    But now I can say to the same novice: Yes, of course. It would be useless to spend a lot of money for a collective lever and for rudder pedals. ONE JOYSTICK WITH TWIST AXIS WOULD BE ENOUGH !!!!



    IPACS, this is so embarrassing !



    Sorry for the long post, but it was necessary.

    All the best to all of you.

  • Hi


    Thanks for bringing this up. I doubt that we are going to see the full fidelity R22 nor the Ecureuill AS350B3 which I have flown on the weekend with the Professional Aerofly FS2 code base. I know the colleagues very well who did the metering on the real bird, for both, the R22 and the AS350.


    I suggested them to put the AS350 on sale as DLC. No chance, not because they don‘t want, but one reason is Airbus not releasing the license like Robinson did. Besides this the metering flights costed a fortune, and due to this, they sell these two highly realistic flight models only with the Level-D AFS2 platform.


    Besides all this, it needs to be scalable in terms of earnings. While the mobile AFS sells like a butterbread, the desktop version ice a niche market. The Pro market has just started. EASA is not yet able to issue level D approval as there is a little gap in the rules. Silly as it sounds, the screen distance between pilot eye and screen is regulated. As you can imagine VR Headset does not have the distance. This is an issue and has to pass all kind of certifications now.


    I am hoping to get an AS350B3 at the level of the current R22. This would be genius. But to keep the expectations as they are from my talks on the Helico Weekend with my colleagues, not going to happen before EASA certification is finished, as this is a MUST for the pro platform and without this, no market. So that where the focus is and of course where the funding is coming from, the mobile platform.


    I. an understand them, although I am not happy for my own preference.


    Btw, the AS350B3 was really ultra realistic. I flown the real one and the one in sim. Fantastic work. Maybe one day ...

    X-Plane 11.3x / DCS 2.5.4 / P3Dv4.5 / Aerofly FS 2


    Win10-x64 | ASUS Z270E | Intel i7-7700K @4.5GHz | Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB DDR4 | 6TB SSD Samsung 850 Pro | ASUS GTX 1080 ROG STRIX 8GB DDR5X | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Combat Pedals | Oculus Rift S

  • Why?, there is already an easy mode.


    Well, after days of meaningful silentness past by on the part of IPACS's developers (---> still no real answer to the other complaints of various users regarding R22 flight model issue - see above), I became pretty frustrated and flyiing the R22 pretty boring comparing to its beginnings.


    That's why I tried another attempt today, and I had success :) - it's pretty easy to accomplish:


    1. The only thing I've really done was just to go on Steam - Library- Right Klick on AFS2 - Properties - Betas -
    2. ...and disabling all Beta-Programs in the drop down menu !
    3. After you've done so correctly, the Steam updater starts immedeately rolling back your AFS2 version to its official release canditate (RC Version) - which means it deletes simultaneously the last two Open-Beta updates, which is very crucial.
    4. Don't be shy: you cannot harm your installation by rolling back your AFS2 version. Beside it the "update" is very small (just somewhat more than 100 MB).


    After this fairly short process I was eager to do the same R22 test flight scenario I've dicribed in post # 11 above and the results became pretty clear a short time:

    • I got Claude Vuichard initial R22 flight-model back ^^
    • the same wildly behaviour close above ground/during take off and I was forced to take a lot more of an attention during hovering.
    • controlling this bird with only one joystick (see post # 11) became almost "impossible" - at least significantly catchier -compared to the last two OB flight model versions of the Robinson.


    In my eyes this is the second clear proof that IPACS has changed the R22 during the last Open Beta Updates towards

    • easier handling, more forgiving of the R22 flight model
    • especially during take off and approach/landing/hovering phases.
    • they literally cut down the feathers of an originally beautiful bird to fly. - but you can achieve this again (if you have AFS2 open beta installed currently) by rolling back to RC version.




    Anyway, tomorrow is an official holiday in Germany !

    So, have a good time and enjoy flying, enjoy it, enjoy it ;),

    all the best.

  • Well, opting out of the beta won't do you much good in the long run. As soon as IPACS thinks that the beta version is stable enough they'll release it to the public and then you'll have the altered flight model back.

  • Well, the purpose of the beta is to report bugs? this is a BUG. It should get removed and not pushed through to the next stable edition. It's just a tad concerning, that ipacs are not certain what has caused this change in the flight model, as it wasn't purposely changed. Hopefully they find out.

    The worst day of flying still beats the best day of real work.

  • Well, the purpose of the beta is to report bugs? this is a BUG. It should get removed and not pushed through to the next stable edition. It's just a tad concerning, that ipacs are not certain what has caused this change in the flight model, as it wasn't purposely changed. Hopefully they find out.


    Well, I've another plausible theory why it has changed, but I'll keep it for myself because I cannot establish it - in this case I prefer the proverb "silence is golden" .


    But - for heavens sake - I'm really hoping that your sight is true, cgerada !

  • Sorry for the delay, I was away for a while and couldn't ask.


    Yes we did change something in the R22. The rotor blades are now simulated as bendable! If you stop the rotor you can see how flexible they are, the blades can now twist and bend which of course also dampens some of the abrupt inputs and it also makes it a bit more stable and at the same time a bit softer and easier to fly. We did this to get more realistic simulation results in comparison to real world test data and to simulate the rotor response to stick inputs even better. The R22 flies extremely close to the data of the real world aircraft.

  • Post by Overloaded ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves: broken thread is working again ().