Cultivation Airport Link

  • I've been progressively adding to my local area: Geoconvert, Cultivation (easiest and most bang per buck/effort of the lot) and now runways. I got a huge amount of cultivation data from UK Ordnance Survey and linked it all to my first airport. Tonight I added a second airport within the area of my airport 1 cultivation. I just flew from airport 1 to airport 2 - it was great. Then I decided to fly from airport 2 to airport 1 and to my surprise there was no cultivation, so FS2 apparently didn't load it as it's linked to airport 1.


    What should I do here? Break down the cultivation into two parts? But is there a magical radius related to an airport or will I never see cultivation related to a destination airport only a departure airport?

  • Ah, you just discovered the very first snag :)

    You will need to add the cultivation files to your other airports in your scenery package and add the lines to your TSC of the other airport(s).

    There is one bug here though, if you start off at one airport then restart the scenario but at the other airport again you will find that the lights are all doubled.

    You will need to close Aerofly and restart to take off again at the other airport. It appears that the old data stays in memory then tries to reload the same data over it. This is indeed a bug that will need to be fixed.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • Ah, you just discovered the very first snag :)

    You will need to add the cultivation files to your other airports in your scenery package and add the lines to your TSC of the other airport(s).

    There is one bug here though, if you start off at one airport then restart the scenario but at the other airport again you will find that the lights are all doubled.

    You will need to close Aerofly and restart to take off again at the other airport. It appears that the old data stays in memory then tries to reload the same data over it. This is indeed a bug that will need to be fixed.

    That's a perfectly reasonable work around. Do I get a prize for finding this bug... err snag? ;)

  • That's a perfectly reasonable work around. Do I get a prize for finding this bug... err snag? ;)

    You win some free advice :)

    I would call it a snag since there is a workaround, if it were a bug one would have to still get it resolved.


    This only happens if you have more than one airport sharing the same project. For instance, if you made small areas of scenery with its own cultivation for each airport then each of the files would be unique to that area, since you have one larger area that is cultivated with multiple airports, and the cultivation file is hosted in the airport folder, then you run into this problem.


    I believe that if your cultivation files were hosted in the scenery (images) folder, then this wouldn't happen.


    You will also notice, if you start Aerofly and choose a location in the air (not selecting any airport) you will also not see any cultivation since it's tied to airport folders.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • Thanks for that. Is the concept of "project" or "area" something in the TSC file or folder structure? I'm happy to try moving the cultivation files to scenery>images but do I need to change the pathname or will they get found?

  • Project= the scenery that you have fully with geoconvert imagery plus any airports that you have for that area.


    For example; if you made an area with the geoconvert tool and you only have one airport made for that area, adding cultivation files to that airport would basically work and there would be no problems (unless you didn't start off at that airport, then the cultivation files wouldn't be activated). But, if you made a geoconvert area and you have more than one airport in that area, you will need to add that same cultivation information that you made for the one airport to all of them, so when you start at a different airport your cultivation will show up.

    The latter would be where you may encounter the issue of 'doubled' cultivation, and right now you will need to close Aerofly and reopen it to start at a new airport in your cultivation area.


    So, the theory here would be to link cultivation with the imagery location and not to an airport. I don't believe this could be done yet but I haven't gotten to testing it yet.


    I hope this doesn't confuse you.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • I've only just come across this thread. It's puzzled me and I have a couple of questions about it:


    1. In the UK I have several 100 x 100 km areas of cultivation linked to one airport within each area. I get the impression from reading this thread that I should only see the cultivation if I actually take off from the particular airport that is linked to the cultivation. Is that right?


    2. However I've just carried out a test, and I still see cultivation when I start from another non-linked airport within the cultivation area - or if I cross over the boundary into a neighbouring cultivation area. That doesn't seem to tie in with my understanding of the thread, so I'm a bit confused.

  • Ian,


    We've all been thinking that cultivation is linked to actual airports, but it does not have to be. Recently I have been cultivating without any airport linked to the process. The freedom this gives is staggering. I can cultivate a chosen area in minutes.



    Try this.


    1. Pick an area in the UK that you have not cultivated, and for which you have no airports defined.

    2. Use the usual process with the OSM map, and then scenproc to create a .toc file. for that area.

    3. Now, use geoposition.com to find a spot right in the middle of your cultivated area, and make a note the LonLat and elevation details.

    4. Now, instead of creating a new airport, complete with visible runways that will show up in the location and navigation maps in the sim, take an existing .tsc from an existing airport, copy it, rename it, and edit it in notepad++ to have the bare minimum details. NO runways, NO ICAO, NO tower detail, NO parking spots....


    Here is an example that I used in adding cultivation to an area of the Swiss DLC.



    1 <[file][][]

    2 <[tmsimulator_scenery_place][][]

    3 <[string8][type][AutogenLocator]>

    4 <[string8][sname][Emmen]>

    5 <[string8][lname][Emmen]>

    6 <[string8][icao][]>

    7 <[string8][country][]>

    8 <[string8][coordinate_system][lonlat]>

    9 <[vector2_float64][position][8.2809448 47.0744165]>

    10 <[float64][height][2453]>

    11 <[float64][size][10000]>

    12 <[vector2_float64][tower_position][0 0]>

    13 <[float64][tower_height][0]>

    14 <[bool][autoheight][true]>

    15 <[string8][lights][]>

    16 <[list_tmsimulator_scenery_object][objects][]

    17 <[tmsimulator_scenery_object][element][0]

    18 <[string8][type][ground]>

    19 <[string8][geometry][AutogenLocator]>

    20 <[vector3_float64][position][8.2809448 47.0744165 -10]>

    21 <[float64][orientation][0]>

    22 <[int32][autoheight_override][-1]>

    23 >

    24 >

    25 <[list_tmsimulator_startposition][start_positions][]

    26 >

    27 <[list_tmsimulator_view_position][view_positions][]

    28 >

    29 <[list_tmsimulator_scenery_cultivation][cultivation_files][]

    30 <[tmsimulator_scenery_cultivation][element][0]

    31 <[string8][filename][Ch-Emmen-on]>

    32 <[bool][auto_height][true]>

    33 >

    34 >

    35 >

    36 >


    (Of course, the above is not formatted correctly with the indents, but I could not reproduce that in this forum post!.. I tried to indent and it posted the incomplete post instead!!)


    The point is this..... The LonLat co-ordinates are NOT linked to an airport, they are linked to a location. Even if you have not defined an airport, it does not matter.


    So, some explanations of the above.


    - In line 3, I have the term "Autogenlocator" instead of airport. The term does not matter, but I invented that one for my own use.

    - In lines 4 and 5, you can write anything you want in there to help identify the area since you are not attached to an airport.

    - In lines 6 and 7 there is no need for an ICAO or even country.

    - Line 9 is what you identified as a suitable location point in geoposition.com. Again, this does not need to correspond with an airport.

    - Line 10 just uses the elevation of your locating point, as seen in Geoposition.com.

    - Line 11, this is a key. The bigger the number, the greater the range at which the cultivation is triggered. When cultivation is set at a small number and linked to an airport, it's little wonder you need to be at or near that airport to see it. Increase the number and you increase the range.


    Notice there are no runways defined, we don't need them. However, line 19 is important.

    In this case the term "Autogenlocator" is the name I have given to the dummy runway.tmb file.term I have used. I could have called it by any name I want, as long as this term in the line and the filename match.


    In line 20, the location of this invisible dummy runway is once again the location we have chosen, not the location of any real airport.


    Line 31 refers to the .toc file that was created by scenproc. Notice something here... I have added -on to the file name. Why? Because if my old system slows down with too much cultivation, I will just go into file explorer and rename the file to -off for the next flight session! Instant control over regional or local autogen.

    his system is working like a charm for me.


    Not only is cultivation no longer linked to an airport, it also means I can start off in the air anywhere in the area covered by my cultivation, and it still shows up. It means I can cultivate an area where there is no airport and not need to add one, or I can cultivate an area where there is an airport and not mess with the .tsc of that airport.


    Hope this helps you and the "gang."


    Regards

    Kenneth

  • Genius! Jeff was hinting about not linking to an airport but you've followed it through to a great solution. Now we need to do some performance tests. With this approach and the great UK OS opendata i could cultivate the entire uk in one go. Surely that is too much, so do we make multiple autogen locator files and what area makes sense.

  • I'll provide you with the solution for adding cultivation to an area that has more than one airport. The one issue that I had with my Florida Keys scenery, and the first time we have encountered this because there were two airports using the same cultivation package, was that since the cultivation is attached to one airport yet you still needed the cultivation to be active when going to the other airport. So, originally it was assumed that you need to then add the cultivation files to each airport. In doing this when you select the one airport and fly around then select the other one you got ghosting or duplicate loading of the same cultivation set which caused all kinds of problems .

    In discussing this with Torsten, it as later mentioned that you can use the parameter 'size' in the TMC of one airport of your scenery.


    So, to solve this problem you need to choose an airport near the center of your coverage area, add the cultivation files to that airport, then simply measure from that airport to the furthest point of your scenery that you want the cultivation on and place that number (in meters) as the parameter 'size'.


    In the case of the Florida Keys, I added the cultivation files to the Key West airport and changed the 'size' parameter from default 5000 to 50000. Now no matter where you fly throughout the entire scenery area you get cultivation regardless of choosing an airport (or selecting the other airport).


    The parameter is the load time trigger of your airport, so at 50000 meters around the airport your cultivation and airport will pre load.


    So whenever you have an area with cultivation that covers a great distance, use this technique.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • Thanks Jeff


    So if I place my airport in the centre of a 100 x 100 km square of cultivation I need set my "size" to about 75000 to be sure of reaching all 4 corners.


    Suppose I then fly across the boundary into a neighbouring area of cultivation linked to a different airport should I expect to see any cultivation in the neighbouring area? (In practice I have found I do see it - sometimes at least - but I am wondering if that is because Aerofly "remembers" it from a previous session?


    In other words, do you have to start from an airport somewhere within a given cultivation area in order to see the cultivation in that area?


    Ian


    PS I haven't had chance to properly test Kenneth's idea yet - which involves a stripped down dummy "airport".

  • In this solution, since that airport (with the cultivation in it) is already loaded into memory, there is no need to actually visit that airport (or any for that matter) . You can start in air and the cultivation will still be there.


    And, you are correct in that your number should be around 75000.

    IPACS Development Team Member

    I'm just a cook, I don't own the restaurant.
    On behalf of Torsten, Marc, and the rest of the IPACS team, we would all like to thank you for your continued support.


    Regards,


    Jeff

  • OK - thanks Jeff. So I guess "starting in the air" is the same as flying into a cultivation area from Aerofly's point of view? Wouldn't there have to be a pause while the new cultivation area loads? i.e. Would there be an "hourglass" interval on crossing the boundary?

  • Genius! Jeff was hinting about not linking to an airport but you've followed it through to a great solution. Now we need to do some performance tests. With this approach and the great UK OS opendata i could cultivate the entire uk in one go. Surely that is too much, so do we make multiple autogen locator files and what area makes sense.

    I admit that I have an old machine that struggles to ever get more than 30FPS, so this may not apply to you. But, I find the larger the area that I cultivate and then have "active", the more the performance hit. The idea of adding buildings to the whole UK in one go would appear to be theoretically possible, but would it be practical in terms of performance? For example, I tried adding steetlights to the entire San Fransisco Bay area and beyond, in one file. My FPS slowed to a joke on my old system, even when it was "daytime" and the lights were not "on." For that reason, I am adopting small regions for cultivation, and then switching them on and off by editing the file name of the .toc as I fly in those areas. This works great for circuit training where you only want cultivation in a relatively small area and maximum FPS performance.


    - Kenneth

  • Just wondering, if we haven't got an airfield near the centre what is best?

    1. Make a dummy one as KJKsimmer 's approach

    2. Set a much bigger 'size' parameter. With uk grid square cultivation it could easily be 100,000m or so. Are there any complications here other than performance, as it means loading in autogen unnecessarily on occasion?

  • Just wondering, if we haven't got an airfield near the centre what is best?

    1. Make a dummy one as KJKsimmer 's approach

    2. Set a much bigger 'size' parameter. With uk grid square cultivation it could easily be 100,000m or so. Are there any complications here other than performance, as it means loading in autogen unnecessarily on occasion?

    Hi Phil


    I've basically run with Kenneth's idea of a dummy airport bang in the centre - except that I wasn't able to get it to work exactly as Kenneth described. I do literally have a stripped down airport there with a runway of zero length and zero width - i.e. I have the same co-ordinates for the airport and each end of the runway. I also place the airport at sea level. My airport name is the name of the OS grid square - so I have airport "TQ" at the dead centre of square TQ etc. The dummy airport names appear on the Aerofly location map, but that doesn't really bother me - in fact I find it quite useful as an indicator of where the grid squares are. (Actually I tell a lie - one of my airport names doesn't appear on the map. Maybe it's buried too far underground - not sure!)


    So the size parameter strictly speaking only needs to be (root 2 x 50,000) m - but I've set it to 80,000 for good measure. Everything seems to work fine so far in terms of cultivation loading.


    Ian

  • That strikes me as a tidy solution for OS cultivation. Presumably there is a way to hide the "airfield" from the map that we may stumble upon at some point.