I know there's still a bunch of you guys being "addicted" to Track IR or triple monitor setups for your simming BUT..
Oculus just recently dropped their's Rift price by 100$. When you get Rift + Touch bundle it only comes to £598 now.
I can very much recommend this solution for any kind of PC simulation. It's impossible to describe in plain words, what you get through VR headset and smooth running, beautiful looking sim like FS2.
Just get your wife's credit card and BUY IT!! 
I know there's still a bunch of you guys being "addicted" to Track IR or triple monitor setups for your simming BUT..
Oculus just recently dropped their's Rift price by 100$. When you get Rift + Touch bundle it only comes to £598 now.
I can very much recommend this solution for any kind of PC simulation. It's impossible to describe in plain words, what you get through VR headset and smooth running, beautiful looking sim like FS2.Just get your wife's credit card and BUY IT!!
Ditto. The immersion is amazing.
Well Jay, I'm very interested in V.R. But from what I have seen and heard, the current headsets still have certain defects or ... details not sufficiently developed, and for that reason I have not yet decided immediately, although if I am going to do so soon, but I wanted, I wish before these small deficiencies are remedied.
We all know that there are certain sensations (especially visual), which are not easy to express with words, anyway I would ask an effort to you, and all those who already enjoy this technology (basically visual), to make an effort and Describe with words, that wonderful feeling of the RV applied to the flight, and also I would like to know, what are the deficiencies that still have the current devices.
The VR offers absolutely extraordinary sensations, but especially, we are going to enjoy those that we like to fly. I have no doubt, that no one will enjoy that vision as much as we do the flying ones.
Only those who enjoy those VR sensations, especially flying, are the most indicated to enumerate those deficiencies compared to the vision in monitor.
I expect those impressions, those differences and those sensations; I repeat, compared to the vision in a good monitor.
Naturally, there is one, which is very strong and impressive: the concept of immersion !. Logically it is the one that weighs more when making the decision; Everything else I think is not as wonderful as some comment.
What I said: I hope (myself and many others), those wonderful feelings that you can relate.
Kind Regards: Delfin
I'm using the Oculus CV1 and the reviews of the VR experience are the reason I decided to give it a shot. It is the *only* VR flying sim that I can find that is 'realistic.' Of course, there are plenty more things to add to make the immersion even better, but there's nothing like those couple of seconds where you have your goggles on and you've made all of your selections in the main menu and you're waiting for the scenario to load into memory then....BAM - you're sitting in the pilot's seat of your favorite plane and are able to look around 360 degrees at everything.
I always find myself just sitting there for a moment taking everything in before I even start to click any switches.
I can't wait for what's to come with this game and I hope IPACS is thinking big in the long run.
The only time I load it up in 2D now is when I want to look at a livery I made in-game and maybe take a screenshot. Even then it feels like I'm playing it on a tablet. No comparison.
Immersion is the perfect word. Anyone that owns a Rift or Vive owes it to themselves to try it out, even if you wind up wanting a refund. I have a friend who loves his Rift but wasn't interested in "flying games" until I showed him FS2. Now, he's googling everything and wanting to learn how to fly properly. So great...
Delfinpm, there will never be a "perfect" headset and there will always be a better one on the way. If you're interested, dive in. I had your opinion before I purchased, and since I did I haven't regretted it yet. Oculus even threw us an amazing freebie just recently that's mind-blowing called Robo Recall, if you have the Touch controllers. Wow!
What's FS2 like in VR?
I wrote some stuff for Ray's Avsim review of FS2 focussing on the VR aspect as he doesn't have VR. A short version was used. Here's the full one.
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AeroFly FS2 has 3 launch modes: normal screen mode and two virtual reality (VR) modes. One is for the Oculus Rift and one for Steam VR (i.e. the Vive although plugins for other VR headsets exist). This is a first for any flight simulator (FlyInside will be mentioned later). If you already have an Oculus Rift or HTC Vive, then the decision about whether or not to buy this sim is very simple. Just buy it. It is one of the most impressive Virtual Reality experiences available and just as importantly, if you don’t think it worth continuing with then, within a period of 14 days and 2 hours playing time, Steam will give you a full refund. Just Google “how to get a refund off steam”.
What it feels like
If VR is something completely new to you, you may be wondering what all the fuss is about. Firstly flight simming in VR is a very different experience and one which is difficult to convey in words. Videos don’t help either. When you put the headset on, all you can see is the 3 dimensional world of the cockpit, landscape or whatever your point of view is. It comes with a very welcome sense of scale too - the sheer size of a 747 for example. With modern 64 bit design optimised for current technology, FS2 has no problem running at the 90+ frames per second needed to ensure that head movements instantly update the image you see. You no longer “think” about changing your point of view, you just behave naturally and instinctively, glancing at your feet if you suspect you’ve left a little right rudder down or grabbing a glimpse at the runway to check you are abeam the numbers. I mentioned FlyInside earlier, as this add-on for FSX (and now X-Plane) has been available for quite a while, but as it runs on top of the ageing FSX code, sadly there just isn’t enough CPU & GPU horsepower left over to achieve the same instant and fluid experience. The experience can even be quite visceral. I installed the cold and dark mod for the Cessna C172 and, out of curiosity, opened the pilot’s door at 5,000ft and looked down. A wave of genuine vertigo hit me.
Downsides
Are there any downsides, apart from the $600 price tag of a Rift (Vives are more) and the fact you need a fairly high powered PC? Well the current early access mode means a lot of functionality is still yet to come, but that’s been covered by this review already. Screen resolution is also something to consider. With current technology they just can’t squeeze as many pixels into the 110 degree field of view as you’d need to match the resolution you’re used to with a decent monitor. As a result some instrument readings are a little fuzzy. This isn’t an issue with simple aircraft and large instruments, such as the Cessna, but as you progress to more complex aircraft with busier panels and smaller readouts it can detract. Remember also that all you can see is the screen in front of your eyes. With your hand on the yoke/stick and a throttle quadrant adjacent you can get to most primary controls easily, but if you have say the Saitek panel attached to the yoke you have to memorise the position of any buttons you use as you can’t see your fingers pressing them. This issue extends to the fact you can’t see any notes you might have written or approach plates you’d like to refer to. The developers have so far resisted quick fixes to this such as putting a notepad overlay on the screen. Having discussed this on the forum, their preference is to develop new innovative solutions which feel more realistic. I suspect for example that the iPad currently lying on the co-pilots seat might feature in the solution. There are quite a few new problems like this which haven’t existed pre-VR and I’m personally very pleased that the developers are prioritising realism in their pursuit of the solutions. Do I still prefer VR to a 2D screen, even with all these shortcomings? Yes absolutely. It is sheer magic.
Going Forward
Virtual reality is certainly a leading edge technology, and I’d decided a long time ago to be an early adopter, putting my Oculus Rift pre-order in within hours of it first becoming available. The risk though with leading edge technology is that it can in hindsight be seen as bleeding edge – technology that isn’t quite mature and stable enough for mainstream use, and is replaced by new entrants who learn from the mistakes of those who stumbled in early. I am certainly looking forward to the next generation of headsets which take the current 2K screens (1K per eye) up to 4K (2K per eye). There’s even a Chinese manufacturer offering 8K, however there’s a lot more than pixels needed to make an experience that feels natural and real, so I’ll be cautious on those. It will probably be at least another year before a well designed 4K headset emerges.
For now though, in terms of pixels, AeroFly FS2 does an amazing job with the current screens and achieved another level of sharpness and clarity after introducing built in super-sampling around October last year. Super sampling is a method of rendering to a much higher resolution than is physically available, so that when it is mapped to the lower resolution the image appears sharper. It requires more processor effort of course, which again is an area where FS2’s efficient code leaves spare capacity to do this extra work. I’ve tried FlyInside in FSX and also in the X-Plane 11 Beta, as well as games like DCS and I was disappointed by the detail compared to FS2. There is of course the question of whether to go Vive or Rift. I have the Rift and for a time the Rift was ahead after introducing a technology which used some clever tricks to render frames with almost half the CPU/GPU effort. At present I don’t think either of them have a real edge in performance though and engineers at both companies are working hard to squeeze more and more out of their equipment. It is in areas like this that other headset manufacturers may struggle to keep up. The Vive seems to have been the most dynamic in terms of innovation and has certainly taken a more open approach to their technology. Fast and accurate tracking of head movement is critical and there is a likelihood that other makers of headset equipment will be able to use Vive’s tracking system. This may give more and potentially cheaper upgrade options.
The final area of compromise for early adopters is around haptics – the ability to touch and sense your virtual cockpit. As I explained you are blind to the physical world, limiting the usability of existing hardware, and no good options yet exist to replace that. The hand controllers made by Vive and Oculus are no use, certainly in my opinion. They are no substitute for a HOTAS or yoke and you can’t switch between. This is in fact one area where FlyInside is currently ahead, as they support a product called Leap Motion which clips onto the headset and tracks hand movement, displaying it in cockpit as disconnected floating hands that can interact with the cockpit. AeroFly FS2 have not yet added this support. My guess is that they are trying to do something more complex than FlyInside. All aircraft in AeroFly come with an avatar – a modelled person who flies the aircraft and mirrors all your movements. If you switch seats in the Cessna for example, and turn the yoke or apply some right rudder, you will see a blond lady in the pilot’s seat performing exactly those actions as you do. They currently disable the avatar when you are in the pilot’s seat, though it can be switched on by tweaking configuration files. I expect when FS2 introduces Leap Motion support you will see “your own” arms and hands from your own avatar reaching out to the panel. It may sound gimmicky but I have experienced a simple version of this in War Thunder and for me it added to the immersive experience. I said there were, as yet, “no good options” because the accessory a lot of people are waiting for is the haptic glove, such as the GloveOne due out in the next month or two. It works with Leap Motion and claims to offer not only hand tracking but a sense of touch, with the ability to differentiate textures and even give a sense of weight. To feel that something is made of plastic verses metal and to have a sense of resistance to a toggle switch would be the ideal.
You will have to make your own mind up whether AeroFly FS2 provides the impetus to jump in to the world of virtual reality flight simulation. It will certainly get a lot better than it is right now, but it is already amazing, and for my part I have no regrets at all.
Hell is a world without paragraphing!
Hell is a world without paragraphing!
Hee hee - fair point. It was a hasty cut'n'paste via ipad. Updated.
Hee hee - fair point. It was a hasty cut'n'paste via ipad. Updated.
It took me an hour to read that book
What's FS2 like in VR?
Great work there mate, thanks for posting that here. I think you sum up the whole experience very accurately. To add to the discussion, I told my wife the other day I was saving up for a CV2, and she said 'what on earth for? You've only just got that one (CV1).' This shows us two things:
1, Wives don't get stuff/think you're an idiot
2, The CV1/VR is so good, that version 2 will be incredible.
The resolution is about as good as it can be for current cpu/gpu power, but it will get better and it is the only weakness of VR currently imo. If you have even the vaguest interest in flying/driving/space then get one, it's the best toy I've bought for years.
Hi, "ZeroOSquared" , "Spit40", and "John..."
Well, you have left me very pleasantly impressed by the effort made by putting that article in this forum. This contributes to my training and that of many others: advantages of the forum !. I read that publication with real interest. Once again, thank you, very, very, very much.
Of course, words can be described, narrated and convinced of the extraordinary characteristics of that device. Of course, words do not have the conviction power that the headset has. The one who can prove it, will be much more convinced, than he who can not do it. Words do not have the same power of conviction, but they also help.
That expression that says: "is worth more a picture than a thousand words", is very appropriate in this case. Although in this case, it is not only the image, but the moving image.
Especially for you, Spit40: your publication, it was a success to have published it in this forum, I suppose it will be very interesting for many people..
Anyone know when the CV2 of Oculus will be released, as well as its price ?
Regards: Delfin
2018 i'd say for a CV2, but pimax may upgrade their 4k headset this year with vive's lighthouse tracking. If they did that well and it was genuine 4k, not upsampled 2k which i think it is now then it would be very interesting. I think current pc's should be ok with the power to run it as you wouldn't need supersampling enabled (or you'd need less)
2018 i'd say for a CV2, but pimax may upgrade their 4k headset this year with vive's lighthouse tracking. If they did that well and it was genuine 4k, not upsampled 2k which i think it is now then it would be very interesting. I think current pc's should be ok with the power to run it as you wouldn't need supersampling enabled (or you'd need less)
Or you could just buy a PIMAX and use NOLO for tracking
Summary for Aviators:
This whole VR-thing is not "step into reality", it is step out of reality.
Summary for Aviators:
This whole VR-thing is not "step into reality", it is step out of reality.
Now you're getting existential. 
VR feels like reality.
Yes, but at the moment only for mobile ?. Good demo that link with your "demo". Thank you HiFlyer.
V.R.? ; Reality ?; Within reality ?; Out of reality ?. Almduler ... What is reality ?. Undoubtedly the men who are going to enjoy the RV, we probably are, the aviators (those who like to fly). Surely no other reproduction, it is so gratifying and exciting. The airmen, in general we are quite vehement and the strong emotions and the adrenaline we love, for that reason the RV and the flight, we are passionate and it produces us that enormous enjoyment; In that respect, we are a very lucky group.
Until the recent appearance of the RV, all documentaries and recordings of all kinds, we saw them in two-dimensional, and also under a very narrow "angle of vision" (usually less than 30 degrees); From now on, we have the possibility to see it with an angle of up to 110 degrees, and that radically changes the visual spectacle and is due to the RV. Finally ..., the V.R. Is very, very close to the "Reality-Reality" (absolutly all our visual angle, enjoy what we have previously recorded, or are reproducing.
The VR, has a great future, however already begins to make the same mistake as in the past: "produce a huge amount of "junk games". I am quite convinced that they will continue in that production line:" games A pathological infantilism ", and this is going to produce a fatigue and even, a discredit in the RV.
Time will tell us, and ... I would very much like to be wrong. Wait and see!.
Regards : Delfin
good point of view Delfin.
I like the section that reveals the link between hardware and what you name "junk games".
Maybe i should try it once in combination with aerofly,
just for learning about what makes you guys being so excited about it.
I wonder how your hands will find throttle, Flight Control stick and how you move the mouse.
Some doubts about the sparkle yet.
My vision (as by your "Time will tell us"-section) is augmented reality without being bound to on-body-hardware/gears/wearings
to translate the visual output and combine both way interaction.
I see large size holo touch areas around a user.
you would then touch the picture, not the hardware that controls the picture.
will hit the market in aprx. 3 years from now.
I can't begin to write as in depth as Spit40, but he is spot on. My experience initially started as curiosity as to how VR would look in flight simulation.
I bought a CV1 from bestbuy to try it, thinking I would return it if it wasn't worth the cost. The first night back in December that I hooked it up and launched FSX with FlyInside I was absolutely floored. The only issue was the frame rates were not the greatest and the resolution was a bit blurry at time. I have since tweaked it to where it is pretty good.
But then I bought Aerofly and it is just a different world. The resolution is fantastic. The experience is just impossible to describe in words. To put it simply, you are "there", in the cockpit flying over incredible scenery. With a monitor there is no immersion. You can look around and see your office, tv or whatever and that makes it feel like a game. With VR there are no distractions whatsoever. I can not go back to a monitor now. I have tried and I last 5 minutes and it's back to the Rift.
I actually get to cruise, move to the back of the plane, put on some music and just fly the flight as a passenger sometimes haha. It feels that real.
Obsessed is an understatement for me! My wife thinks i am insane. But if you love simming, then it is a no brainer.
[quote='ssites','https://www.ipacs.de/community/foru…38096#post38096']
I actually get to cruise, move to the back of the plane, put on some music and just fly the flight as a passenger sometimes haha. It feels that real.
Hi, ssites:
I liked your writing on the V.R; and I really liked this paragraph:
"I actually get to cruise, move to the back of the plane, put on some music and just fly the flight as a passenger sometimes haha".
I had never heard anything like it, and I did not think I could travel, fly like a passenger, and with good music. It is another point of view that is unquestionably very attractive and tempting to buy that ... Oculus? (CV1, CV2) ... Live? ...
Thanks for that narration, especially that paragraph, has been really original
Regards: Delfin
NOLO & PIMAX
